Notgeld Der Provinz Westfalen

[chrisild]

While you describe the piece as a state emergency token, I have found it described as receipts for payment of state lottery tickets. I am not sure how that would have worked, but it does explain the odd values, incomparable with other emergency tokens of the period, more often associated with paper and even far above such official coins as the 200 and 500 marks.

Correct; they have never been coins. See here:

(...) in the 1920s (when those "notgeld" pieces were issued), Westfalen was not a state but a province of Prussia. In 1946 it became part of the newly founded state of Nordrhein-Westfalen (North Rhine Westphalia). In the coat of arms of NW, the stylized river represents Rhineland (not a duchy); the horse is for Westphalia indeed, and the rose is for Lippe. While the first two were Prussian provinces between the annexation and 1946, Lippe was a state of its own until it became part of NW. Now it is a county, but since the CoA shows the three parts that the state was created from, the rose is still there.

And yes, the Jaeger also says that these Westphalian pieces were not actually notgeld. According to that catalog, none of the pieces ever circulated; they were made solely as souvenirs and for fundraising. The pieces made in fall 1923 were supposed to circulate, but by the time they were issued, they already were worthless. And the 1 Billion Mark piece (a German Billion is a trillion) even came out after the inflation, and was then sold at the price of 2.50 RM ...

Christian

[Figleaf]

Thanks again, Christian. It ought to reduce my want list, but it doesn't. That 1 billion piece requires thousands of euros to buy, so I had already written it off. I am once again pleased by Jäger's research. And yet, I am still not sure how the pieces were used. They are common enough to think that they weren't just sold to raise money. Maybe stocks were sold after inflation as well? Maybe we'll never know.

Peter

[Ukrainii Pyat]

Indeed most of the notgeld coins and porcelain coins were never used for actual circulation - they would have been valueless by the time they managed to get into circulation.  I have a couple of the Saxony porcelain issues, and some select sets of the paper notgeld where they were issued in packets that were sold for fundraising projects.  My favourite is the dukat defecating donkey from Paderborn.

[chrisild]

I am once again pleased by Jäger's research. And yet, I am still not sure how the pieces were used. They are common enough to think that they weren't just sold to raise money. Maybe stocks were sold after inflation as well? Maybe we'll never know.

Not quite sure whether the info about those Westphalian pieces was added by Jaeger himself, or by one of the later/current editors, but I remember that in an earlier edition of the catalog there was a comment about how the "coins" are listed merely due to tradition. And I suppose that a dedicated notgeld catalog (which the Jaeger is not) has some more detailed info, ie. the Funck maybe.

Anyway, the Jaeger catalog says they are medallic souvenirs which have never been means of payment. ("Die Notmünzen der Landesbank Westfalen sind niemals echte Zahlungsmittel gewesen. Es sind medaillenartige Erinnerungsstücke mit Wertangabe, deren Reinertrag sozialen Zwecken zufloß.") In late 1923, some pieces were supposed to actually circulate, but by the time they came out, they had practically become worthless due to the inflation.

Christian

[clarkmilitaria]

Hi everyone I am new here, this is my first post. I see in this thread some of you are interested in the 1 Billion Mark coin. I picked this up a few days ago from a man whos grandfather served in the Airborne in WWII and brought back a lot of things. I bought some other pins and badges from him, I am a militaria collector, but this piece is the most interesting. I believe it is original, but I have little to no experience with coins so I am not 100% sure. What can you tell me about how much it is worth? One of you said you took it off your list because it required thousands of euros, if that is the case I really did well! Thank you all.
Jeff

[translateltd]

Menzel (2005) lists four varieties of the Billion, all 60 mm diameter:

"German silver", silvered, mintage 11,113, EUR 250
"German silver", gilt, mintage 100 (or 500), EUR 500
Bronze (pattern) mintage 5, EUR 250
Lead (forgery), EUR 100

Nothing in the thousands, unless market prices have moved well beyond catalogue in the meantime.

Menzel also states that the 1921-dated issues (all relatively low denominations) circulated until 1 February 1922; the others are medallic in nature.

[clarkmilitaria]

Ok thank you very much, still an interesting coin.

[Figleaf]

Glad to see that either my memory failed again or the price has come down significantly. BTW, there is nothing military about this series of tokens and medals. Coins seldom are (with a few exceptions). Medals and decorations are another story and you will find plenty of those on this site. Tokens can also have a military connection, such as some of these.

Peter

[clarkmilitaria]

Yes, I know this is not military. The man I bought this from had a large collection of German WWII pins and coins, I only bought a few because he wanted to keep some to show his kids. I saw that this said 1 billion marks and thought it would be pretty cool to have.

[clarkmilitaria]

Menzel (2005) lists four varieties of the Billion, all 60 mm diameter:

"German silver", silvered, mintage 11,113, EUR 250
"German silver", gilt, mintage 100 (or 500), EUR 500
Bronze (pattern) mintage 5, EUR 250
Lead (forgery), EUR 100

Nothing in the thousands, unless market prices have moved well beyond catalogue in the meantime.

Menzel also states that the 1921-dated issues (all relatively low denominations) circulated until 1 February 1922; the others are medallic in nature.

OK, I took this to a coin dealer near me and he said this one, mine, was silver (mostly). He said the last silver one he had was in 2005. Can any of you determine if mine is silver or not? If so, that would place it into the category of the 500 EUR one listed above? Or the silver one listed above for 250 EUR?
Thanks

[translateltd]

"German silver" is a base metal alloy that doesn't actually contain any silver.  The example in the list above would have a silver coating and therefore have the appearance of silver and not be too different in weight.  The gilt version would be yellow-ish and look more like gold.

So yours is most likely the silvered version.  I assume the lead forgery would be much duller and easier to detect.