Notgeld Der Provinz Westfalen

[oldecurb]

I have a 5 mark 1921 aluminium coin with the above words on it surrounding a rearing horse.  I guess Westfalen was a state of Germany but I can't find the coin in Krause.  Why isn't it there or am I too dumb to find it?
Bruce

[translateltd]

I have a 5 mark 1921 aluminium coin with the above words on it surrounding a rearing horse.  I guess Westfalen was a state of Germany but I can't find the coin in Krause.  Why isn't it there or am I too dumb to find it?
Bruce

It's a local emergency issue, not a national one, so it's only listed in specialised catalogues.  Westfalen is the state of Westphalia.  There are lots of varieties of the "rearing horse" coins in various denominations - let me have more details (diameter, details of the other side) and I'll check it in Menzel for you. 

Menzel runs to two big A4 volumes with no illustrations, so you will see why German emergency issues aren't included in the generic catalogues :-)

[Afrasi]

It is "Notgeld", a token, no coin. But KM shows different token classes behind the Empire section and shows a picture of the piece of "50.000.000.000 Mark" from Westphalia.

[oldecurb]

Thanks for the replies.  Thats all I really need to know

[Figleaf]

Somewhere in my files I have an article that says they are not tokens but proof of payment of lottery tickets. Of course, I can't find the article.

There are two sub-series. One, which includes yours, features Freiherr von Stein, with denominations of 50 pfennig, 1 mark, 5 mark and 10 mark 1921, 100 mark, 500 mark 1922, 10 000 mark, 1/4 million mark, 2 million mark, 5 million mark, 50 million mark (brass), 50 million mark (aluminium), 50 million mark (aluminium, smaller) and 1 billion mark 1923. The other has a portrait of Annette Droste and the denominations 50 mark, 100 mark (brass), 100 mark (aluminium) and 500 mark 1923.

The key to the series is the silver 1 billion mark. The 10 000, 5 million brass and 50 million are hard to find. The 10 and 500 mark pieces are somewhat difficult. The rest is fairly easy to find. They are a very good illustration of hyperinflation in Germany.

I bought most of these pieces when I was collecting British commonwealth coins. Why? Because the jumping Westphalian horse is a direct descendant of the same animal in the coat of arms of the kings of Hannover and the dukes of Braunschweig-Lüneburg, some of whom were king of Britain. A little nephew of the horse figures on British coins ...

Peter

[Figleaf]

Here are two German emergency pieces that link with British coins. The "Herzogtum Braunschweig" piece was issued by the Staatsbank Braunschweig. It shows the jumping Westphalian horse. Hattingen is in the Ruhrgebiet (today Nordrhein-Westfalen, but not in the old province of Hannover). Its emergency coins show a George-and-dragon that will look familiar to British eyes. It is, however, the coat of arms of Hattingen.

Peter

[translateltd]

Cool finds with the B/L connection.

Back to Westphalia, I looked in Menzel last night and he says the first five denominations with the Stein obv circulated and the rest were purely medallic.

[Figleaf]

Here's another one with the Westphalian horse, from Lippstadt, now part of Soest. Interestingly, the arms of Lippstadt do not have the horse, but a walled city under a heraldic rose, another familiar sight for British eyes, which is actually the rose of Lippe. The horse and rose are preserved in the arms of Nordrhein-Westfalen, of which Lippstadt is now part. The left part of the Nordrhein-Westfalen arms is for the grand-duchy Nieder-Rhein. It shows the river with green banks.

Peter

[oldecurb]

I bought the coin/token originally as it was a "horse" coin which is one of the things I collect.  About 50 or so so far.  Interesting that the horse can be related between different countries

[chrisild]

Did not notice this topic while I was in NL. Anyway, in the 1920s (when those "notgeld" pieces were issued), Westfalen was not a state but a province of Prussia. In 1946 it became part of the newly founded state of Nordrhein-Westfalen (North Rhine Westphalia). In the coat of arms of NW, the stylized river represents Rhineland (not a duchy); the horse is for Westphalia indeed, and the rose is for Lippe. While the first two were Prussian provinces between the annexation and 1946, Lippe was a state of its own until it became part of NW. Now it is a county, but since the CoA shows the three parts that the state was created from, the rose is still there.

And yes, the Jaeger also says that these Westphalian pieces were not actually notgeld. According to that catalog, none of the pieces ever circulated; they were made solely as souvenirs and for fundraising. The pieces made in fall 1923 were supposed to circulate, but by the time they were issued, they already were worthless. And the 1 Billion Mark piece (a German Billion is a trillion) even came out after the inflation, and was then sold at the price of 2.50 RM ...

Christian

[Medalstrike]

Staatliches Notgeld der Provinz Westfalen 1923

Brass gilded, 44mm, 32.2g

Vs.: Westphalia Ross
Rs.: Freiherr v. Stein

There are two types:
1. Head in high relief, broad Randstab, Mintage: 315 809
2. Head in low relief, narrow Randstab, Mintage: 199 657

Ref.: Schön 29 [920]


February 1923 cost in Germany:

1 pound flour          1000 Mark
1 pound of meat     4000 Mark
1 pound bread         700 Mark
a glass of beer        600 Mark

and already in July 1923, prices raise to:

1 pound flour           10000 Mark
1 pound of meat      50000 Mark
1 pound bread          3850 Mark
a glass of beer         5500 Mark

Beginning Nov. 1923
was the wage of a skilled worker 24 000, 000, 000, 000 Mark
Price for a newspaper 200, 000, 000, 000 Mark
Price for 250 g butter 428, 000, 000, 000 Mark
Price for a roll (Semmel) 4 500, 000, 000 Mark

One U.S. dollar in January 1919 worth 8.9 Mark,
in January 1923 = 117 972 Mark and reaches in November 1923 high of around 4.2 billion Mark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Friedrich_Karl_vom_und_zum_Stein

Dietmar

[Figleaf]

Excellent example of a well-known series. I collect the series because the Westfalian jumping horse also figures on quite a few coins of British kings who were rulers of some combination of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Calenberg-Hannover.

While you describe the piece as a state emergency token, I have found it described as receipts for payment of state lottery tickets. I am not sure how that would have worked, but it does explain the odd values, incomparable with other emergency tokens of the period, more often associated with paper and even far above such official coins as the 200 and 500 marks.

I have heard of a 1 billion mark piece silver in this series, but I have never seen it.

Peter

[Medalstrike]

Günther Schön / Gerhard Schön - Kleiner Deutscher Münzkatalog writes:
Expenditure of the bank of the Province Westphalia (Use as a payment not established)

(Nominale)
Aluminum:
50 Pfennig, 1 Mark, 5 Mark, 50 Mark, 100 Mark, 1/4 Million Mark, 2 Million Mark, 50 Million Mark.
Brass:
5 Mark.
Brass, gilted:
100 Mark, 500 Mark, 10000 Mark, 5 Million Mark, 50 Million Mark, 1 Billion Mark.
Bronze:
10 Mark, 100 Mark, 500 Mark.
Copper Nickel Zinc, silvered:
1 Billion Mark.

The Billion Mark coins were produced after inflation.
Some coins are also found in silver.

Of the 1 million mark in silver, I have not heard of and seen.

Dietmar

[Figleaf]

1 million should have been 1 billion. Sorry.

Maybe that 5 mark brass is 10 mark? Otherwise, the list is equal to what I have plus my want list (5 million Mark, 50 million Mark, 1 billion Mark, all Stein.)

These pieces are usually found in top condition. They don't look like they have been used as money.

Peter

[Medalstrike]

Hi Peter, I had forgotten the 10 marks in Bronze, is now inserted.
True, all the pieces I have seen are in the best preservation.
A nice collection of them, so you seem to have
Dietmar