Poll

Which designs should appear on the circulating bimetallic pound coin ?

Only the UK-themed design, as on the 2017 coin, and no others
0 (0%)
We should have rotating UK- and "country"-themed designs, as from 1983 to 2007
4 (66.7%)
The standard 2017 design should be permanent, but alongside any special annual designs
1 (16.7%)
Don't know
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: November 30, 2017, 04:06:19 PM

Author Topic: Future of the new £1 coin  (Read 1035 times)

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Offline Alan71

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Future of the new £1 coin
« on: November 18, 2017, 11:11:01 AM »
I’m a bit disappointed that there’s no news of a new £1 coin design yet.  The new standard design is OK, but I’d like to see a return to rotating series of designs (not a low issue of new designs issued in addition to massive issues of the standard, as we’ve seen since 2008).  The current floral design is not related to Dent’s jigsaw and therefore it doesn’t need to be appear every year.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 08:46:57 PM by Alan71 »

Offline redlock

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Re: Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 08:29:13 PM »
I’m a bit disappointed that there’s no news of a new £1 coin design yet.

I think the Royal Mint doesn't want to confuse the average citizen with yet another ''new'' £1 coin so soon. Perhaps in 2019...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 08:53:32 PM by Alan71 »

Offline Alan71

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Re: Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 08:34:06 PM »
I think the Royal Mint doesn't want to confuse the average citizen with yet another ''new'' £1 coin so soon. Perhaps in 2019...
It didn’t bother them in 1984 though.  The public were still getting used to having the pound as a coin when they started the first series of national designs.  The standard one didn’t return until its 10th anniversary year.  If you’re right, it’s clearly a case of dumbing down.

The new pound is still a bit of a novelty at present, with the coins in circulation all shiny and new and those nasty old and worn £1 coins gone.  That isn’t going to last long though, and the pound will soon become the most boring denomination in circulation as it will be the only one with just one reverse design and one portrait of the Queen.  They’ll start to tarnish rapidly as well, if the state of many of the £2 coins is anything to go on (though the £2 is becoming an increasing rarity in change since the new £1 was issued).
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 08:53:57 PM by Alan71 »

Offline kena

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 05:45:51 PM »
My experience when speaking to folks here in the UK, is that they don't care what design is on the reverse of the pound coin (or indeed any coin), the main concern seems to be can I pay for parking with it.  The Royal Shield pound reverse was the only one that I considered as standard since until the new pound coin came out, it was the only reverse that kept from one year to the next.   Only folks who seem to be concerned with the different reverses are folks who collect coins.

When the new pound coin came out, I got a bunch of them from the bank to show friends and co-workers and some of them seem to be unaware that a new design pound coin was coming out.

I have not experienced any change in the number of £2 coins being given in change before or after the switch over with the pound coins.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 07:17:28 PM »
My experience when speaking to folks here in the UK, is that they don't care what design is on the reverse of the pound coin (or indeed any coin), the main concern seems to be can I pay for parking with it.  The Royal Shield pound reverse was the only one that I considered as standard since until the new pound coin came out, it was the only reverse that kept from one year to the next.   Only folks who seem to be concerned with the different reverses are folks who collect coins.

When the new pound coin came out, I got a bunch of them from the bank to show friends and co-workers and some of them seem to be unaware that a new design pound coin was coming out.

I have not experienced any change in the number of £2 coins being given in change before or after the switch over with the pound coins.

This reflects the general attitude I've always observed, whether in the UK or elsewhere. But that doesn't stop people then making a fuss because the new coin is too large/small, they don't like the design, it looks foreign or whatever.  ;)

As to £2 availability - this has always been very regionally variable. Obviously I've not been in the UK to observe any changes since the new £1 came out, but in the first 14 years of the £2's existence, when I was living in the UK, I noted huge variations in its use from place to place. In some areas (e.g. Sheffield) you would regularly get £4 in pound coins in change, whereas in Leicestershire there was a chronic shortage of £5 notes and it was quite common to get four £2 coins in change.

Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 12:12:47 AM »
Just imagine if the SNP found out that there were going to be no more Scottish-themed pound coins. The public might not notice, but if the Scottish press launched an indignant campaign about it, then they would attract a few supporters for sure.  :D

Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 12:19:25 AM »
Here's why the "nationally-themed“ pound coins were introduced in the first place. According to a Royal Mint document in the National Archives, in January 1981 a Treasury official wrote to Nigel Lawson, Financial Secretary to the Treasury:

"Certain Scottish and Northern Irish banks have powers to issue their own bank notes and some nationalistic elements may see the introduction of a £1 coin as effectively replacing their own £1 notes. It has been suggested that there might be political advantage in issuing regional variants of the £1 coin and perhaps also the 20p. This would only marginally increase the initial cost of producing the coins. The design of the coinage is in the first instance a matter for the Royal Mint Advisory Committee but I have no reason to believe they would not be receptive to our suggestions.”

And receptive they were. But did they know the devious political reasoning that lay behind the suggestion?  :D

Offline Alan71

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 11:51:33 AM »
Just imagine if the SNP found out that there were going to be no more Scottish-themed pound coins. The public might not notice, but if the Scottish press launched an indignant campaign about it, then they would attract a few supporters for sure.  :D
I did always wonder if it was Scotland they were most worried about, at least initially.  It was (prior to 2008) always the first in the series of national designs and this meant a huge issue of the original thistle design in 1984.  Even though there had been smallish issues of the £1 in 1986, 1987 and 1988, when Scotland came round again in 1989 it was issued in huge numbers again. 

Probably all a coincidence, but after the thistle, the Scottish heraldic design of 1994 got a smaller issue and when it came round again in 1999, it wasn’t issued for circulation at all (and remained the only national one where this was the case).

The Scottish bridge £1 had decent circulation figures, but the (post-2008) Edinburgh City one was notoriously uncommon.  The Scottish floral design was issued in similar numbers to those for the other three countries.

Wales also had high figures, particularly in 1985, 1990 (both Leek issues) and 2000 (dragon).  Northern Ireland had its highest issue with the Celtic cross in 1996.  England’s issues were respectable but never the highest in any series.

All coincidences probably, and I know it depends on demands for new coins, but I can’t help reading more into it...

http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures/two-pounds-to-20p-issued

Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 11:57:19 AM »
but I can’t help reading more into it...

Yes, all surely just a coincidence. You'll have to see the doctor about your reading-too-much-into-things-itis.  ;)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 12:16:46 PM »
The idea of regional coins dates from George VI shillings. I think it was a bad idea to begin with.

There has been Scottish resentment of English rule at least since Edward Longshanks manoeuvred the hapless John Baliol into the Tower of London, starting a reign of terror, beginning with the slaughter of the population of Berwick and impoverishing Scottish farmers with taxes and corrupt tax collectors. Bad feelings re-emerged with a vengeance over religious reasons and the fate of the Stuarts, not to mention the hangings and beheadings each time a Stuart staged a failed come-back. It didn't help that it took the Hannoverians three generations to recognise that they had a (backward and poor) Scottish constituency.

To believe that centuries of animosity leave no trace in culture is naive. Not to recognise that internal borders, separate sports organisations (that's what people watch most on TV), different banknotes and separate laws are not quaint traditions but a path for separation left open for all takers is astounding, especially when devolution and North sea oil empower the separatists, while Westminster subsidies remain hidden.

People absorb symbols in their thinking (think of road signs.) What is needed is not more symbols and signs for a separate destiny but rather a constant flow of symbols stressing unity. Supporting separatism is another tradition that is useless, even counter-productive. Coin design should include Scottish symbols with those of other regions, rather than appear in regional variants.

Peter

PS - I would applaud a departure from heraldics and heraldic symbols, but the English gossip press is probably not ready for it.
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 12:26:19 PM »
Supporting separatism is another tradition that is useless, even counter-productive. Coin design should include Scottish symbols with those of other regions, rather than appear in regional variants.

The Conservatives did not think they were supporting separatism by doing that, of course. The full title of their party is the Conservative and Unionist party, stressing the Union - originally of England and Scotland but now thought of as four countries in one. Hence the Conservative motto of "Stronger Together" during the referendum for Scottish independence.

You are right, of course, that we still have separate football teams for the four countries. There's English law (which applies also in Wales), Scottish law and Northern Irish law. The UK's central bank is the Bank of England, whose banknotes are legal tender in England and Wales and nowhere else. And if foreigners ask a Brit their nationality, the majority will say "English" or "Scottish" or whatever, rather than British. It's said that those of non-European heritage are more likely to say "British", though.

Quote
PS - I would applaud a departure from heraldics and heraldic symbols, but the English gossip press is probably not ready for it.

I heartily agree, but it's unlikely that Charles, when King, would agree.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 01:41:42 PM »
I’ve done some calculations of the circulation figures for the old £1 coin. For each year/type, I’ve rounded up or down to the nearest 10,000 to make it easier for me to add them up!

The winner is the 1983-2008 “definitive” £1 coin reverse featuring the Royal Arms.  This is mostly due to the original 1983 issue which had the largest issue figures, but is supported by a fairly high 1993 issue and smaller 2003 and 2008 figures (the design appeared in 1998 but wasn’t issued to circulation).  Total issued = 623.3 million.

Wales is by far the highest of the national reverses, with 576.1 million.  This is mainly due to a massive 228.43 issue in 1985 but supported by large figures in 1990, 1995 and 2000 averaging 100 million each.

The Dent Shield of 2008-2015 had 311.65 million issued, half that of the 1983-2008 Royal Arms, despite being issued for double the number of years.  This was due to having to share circulation in some years with national reverses.

Scotland is second in terms of countries, with 291.87 million.  Strong 1984 and 1989 issues are thwarted by a smaller 1994 issue and none for 1999.

Northern Ireland is next with 253.64 million.  Its strongest figures were 1996 and 2001.

England is last but not far behind NI, with 244.65 million.

Additionally there was a large issue (129.62 million) of the final, revised Royal Arms design of 2015, even though its active life was only two years.  Finally, the tiny issue of the 1988 shield design at 7.12 million.


Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 01:52:32 PM »
England is last but not far behind NI, with 244.65 million.

Thanks, Chief Analyst-Statistician.  ;)  So the largest country, with the largest population, gets the fewest coins. I wonder if the Daily Mail knows about this.  >:D

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 04:06:47 PM »
To believe that centuries of animosity leave no trace in culture is naive. Not to recognise that internal borders, separate sports organisations (that's what people watch most on TV), different banknotes and separate laws are not quaint traditions but a path for separation left open for all takers is astounding, especially when devolution and North sea oil empower the separatists, while Westminster subsidies remain hidden.

People absorb symbols in their thinking (think of road signs.) What is needed is not more symbols and signs for a separate destiny but rather a constant flow of symbols stressing unity. Supporting separatism is another tradition that is useless, even counter-productive. Coin design should include Scottish symbols with those of other regions, rather than appear in regional variants.

I disagree. For me "separatism" is like "change" - it is in itself a neutral concept, and what makes it positive or negative is the circumstances, context, reason and methods associated with any attempt at secession. I also don't think the presence or absence of "separatist" symbols makes anything like as much difference as more relevant issues, such as language or perceived financial loss (see Catalonia on both counts). Scotland has all of the trappings of separatism, as you note, yet voted against independence reasonably conclusively in 2014, and has not in opinion polls shown that it wants to vote in favour now, despite Brexit.

Personally I feel that celebrating the diversity of culturally distinct regions, whether in the UK, Spain or anywhere else, is a positive. In fact, a well-handled policy of celebrating such diversity is likely to remove some of the desire for independence and thus promote the cohesion of federal countries. After all, how are the individual £1 coins substantively different in their supposedly subversive message from the US State Quarters or the 2-Euro Bundesländer series?

I agree with both you and <k> on the heraldry, though.

Offline <k>

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Re: Future of the new £1 coin
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 04:08:30 PM »
I've added a poll. Hope you don't mind, Alan71. There wasn't room to explain everything, so I'll point out that option 3, "The standard 2017 design should be permanent, but alongside any special annual designs", is the more or less the same system that was operated from 2008 to 2016.