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Author Topic: South Africa - 1952  (Read 2427 times)

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Offline Manfred1

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South Africa - 1952
« on: November 01, 2017, 01:13:28 PM »
This is the year 1952 … you are employed by Bank 263 as a teller.

A client hands over a bag full of mixed South African silver coins (no copper coins) to be deposited into his account.

Suddenly the fire alarm sounds but you have to complete the deposit. You place the coins on the scale and they weigh 1.167kg

Give the amount in Pounds, Shillings and pennies … Hurry, the building is on fire!!

« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 02:47:01 PM by Manfred1 »

Offline gerard974

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 02:02:30 PM »
hello Manfred
in year 1952 is just shilling ,no penny and no pounds but in French "je donne ma langue au chat" is i dont arrive to find
Best regards  gerard
PS i have more 72 years and when i was go to the school the calcul dont exist  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Manfred1

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 02:23:46 PM »
in year 1952 is just shilling ,no penny and no pounds but in French "je donne ma langue au chat" is i dont arrive to find
;D ;D ;D

Hi Gerard

All in good fun  ;D ;D ... yes South Africa used the following decimals

Pound (gold coin)
Half pound (gold coin)
5 Shillings (silver)
2.5 Shillings (silver) also known as "2 & 6"
2 Shillings (silver) also known as Florin
1 Shilling (silver)
6 Pence (silver)
3 Pence (silver)

Penny (copper)
Half Penny (copper)
Quarter penny (copper) (Farthing)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 02:41:54 PM by Manfred1 »

Offline gerard974

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 02:34:17 PM »
hello again
you are right ,i have find all but in my little head pence are not pennies ,but for the calcul ???
best regards  Gerard

Offline Manfred1

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 02:39:36 PM »
for the calcul ???

The answer will not be something like One pound, 2 Shilling, and 4 1/4 pennies ...

Only silver coins were in the bag ...  >:D

Offline Figleaf

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 02:47:41 PM »
To speed things up a bit, here is the list above with weights added:

Poundgold7.9881 grams
Half poundgold3.9940 grams
5 Shillingslarge silver28.2828 grams
2.5 Shillings also known as Florinlarge silver14.1414 grams
2 Shillingssilver11.3333 grams
1 Shillingsilver5.6667 grams
6 Pencesilver2.8333 grams
3 Pencesilver1.4167 grams

Several answers are possible, since the equation can only be reduced to three variables (gold, large silver coins, small silver coins).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gerard974

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 03:05:22 PM »
hello again
i am sorry but what id the difference between pence and penny  :-[ :-[
Gerard

Offline Figleaf

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 03:14:09 PM »
Penny est le singulier et la pièce d'un unité, pence est le pluriel, Gérard. Les pièces multiples ont pence, alors penny, threepence (pièces).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 03:26:32 PM »
Here is a solution with as additional constraint the largest number of pieces: 684 threepences, 14 halfcrowns. You can change any two halfcrowns for crowns and the appropriate number of threepences into 6 pence, shilling or florin, but that would not change the amount. You may not change a silver piece for a large silver piece. The total amount would be (684*3)+(14*12)=2220 pence or exactly 185 shillings or £9/5/-. Note that this solution is 0.0024 grams more than the stated weight of 1167 grams. However, a scale that can weigh up to two kilos, cannot weigh 0.0024 grams :)

Why no gold? Because the bag only contained silver.

You can find other solutions by shifting from the silver to large silver category.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:48:29 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gerard974

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 04:23:52 PM »
hello Peter
now i know but for the result is too much complicate for me
best regards  Gerard

Offline Manfred1

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 07:26:41 AM »
@ Figleaf

Although i differ regarding the total amount ... well done. At least one person tried to solve the quizz.

@Gerard

I only wanted to show the interesting fact of South African (Union) silver coins ... please see the following.
You will notice the weight and the solution will make sense ...

In a sense i gave you a few clues ... Halfcrown (2.5/-) known as 2&6 - (2 Shilling & 6 Pence)
Bank called "263"

Therefore the following calculation

Weight of 1167 devided by 5.66 (Shilling) = 206.105

200 Shilling = 1132g
5 Shilling = 28.28g
1 Shilling = 5.66g
3 Pence = 1.42g

Total of 1167.36g

200 shillings = 10 Pound

If my calculations are correct .....








Offline Figleaf

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2017, 08:56:23 AM »
The difference between our calculations is largely due to the weights you use. You use the weights in KM, which are rounded to two decimals. I used four decimals. This is significant when it comes to large numbers: using my weights, your solution amounts to a weight of 1168.7062 grams.

My procedure went in two steps: first determine the maximum number rounded up of threepences (the lowest unit of silver). Second, determine the weight effect of exchanging 10 threepences for a halfcrown (the lowest unit of large silver). Withe those two numbers, you can optimise the solution.

Maybe a more elegant procedure could have been found using linear programming, but that would have involved finding old books from my university days while the building is on fire. :) BTW, I think that with linear programming you can introduce copper into the equation, but you'd probably need brute computer force to determine the optimal solution.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Manfred1

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2017, 09:50:28 AM »
Hi Peter

The correctness of our calculations does not matter. I do accept that my calculation may not be correct. I only wanted to inform the members that it is possible, and was also done by tellers in banks this way. (I will try and find a teller from that era) The UK coins from that era also weigh the same. Maybe one of the UK members can try to confirm if they used this method in UK banks?

By the way .... i'm not done .... if you cheated me out of one full pound i'm going to fire you as my banker. >:D ;D

Offline Figleaf

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 10:53:15 AM »
This would be too complicated for tellers, but there is something to it. See this thread.

The UK has maintained four families with the same weight-to-value ratio: bronze, silver, large silver and gold coins. The large silver coins (crown and half crown) are a different family because they were thought of as gold coins converted into silver coins. Tradition prevented that they were brought in line with other silver coins. This reasoning was unquestioningly copied for South African coins.

A teller could handle bags of different coins from the same coin family if they had the same weight-to-value ratio. A bag with only bronze coins could simply be weighed. Large silver coins would have to be separated from small silver coins before they could be accepted by weight. Gold coins are so soft that I suspect wear could make a real difference on the weight. Therefore, in fact, the weighing method could only be applied easily to bronze coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Manfred1

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Re: South Africa - 1952
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2017, 12:21:31 PM »
By the way .... i'm not done .... if you cheated me out of one full pound i'm going to fire you as my banker. >:D ;D

My apologies if my humour offended you in any way ...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:05:03 PM by Manfred1 »