Author Topic: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer  (Read 696 times)

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Offline Henk

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H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« on: October 22, 2017, 10:21:18 PM »
I am looking for information about the following token:

23 mm Brass
O: . H.E.WHITEHOUSE / 1/- / GROCER . (border of dots)
R: THESE CHECKS GIVEN TO / CASH PURCHASERS / VALUE / 1/- / IN THE ₤ / IF / RETURNED / - . - (border of dots)

1 shilling is the Pound is a 5% reduction. It looks like a UK token. But where and when was it used?

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 12:11:23 AM »
These are from Ireland, I have several other values.

I think from Belfast but unsure. They were somewhere on this site Irish tokens but hard to find at present.

Malcolm
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Offline Henk

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 11:22:17 AM »
I found these on the "barry woodside" site you referred to:

AN:V24 O: WHITEHOUSE | * STORE * = a small ornament
            R: ONE | SHILLING 29mm Cu

AN:V25 O: WHITEHOUSE | * STORE * = 1d (in a circle)
            R: beaded border and an inner circle 22mm Cu or bz

No initials are mentioned, I wonder if my token is from the same whitehouse! As its value is actually equivalent to a 5% price reduction I do not expect other values to exist.

Will you please post images of your tokens.

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 12:12:20 PM »
I found these on the "barry woodside" site you referred to:

AN:V24 O: WHITEHOUSE | * STORE * = a small ornament
            R: ONE | SHILLING 29mm Cu

AN:V25 O: WHITEHOUSE | * STORE * = 1d (in a circle)
            R: beaded border and an inner circle 22mm Cu or bz

No initials are mentioned, I wonder if my token is from the same whitehouse! As its value is actually equivalent to a 5% price reduction I do not expect other values to exist.

Will you please post images of your tokens.

These are earlier, and probably, unrelated truck tickets. He seems to be updating the site as there is quite a lot missing, perhaps he will only provide the information on his CD in future?

Here are my H.E.Whitehouse Grocer, 2/6, 32.7mm; 1/-, 24mm; 6d, 19.3mm; and 3d, 16.8mm.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Henk

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 06:37:07 PM »
Thanks for the photos. I see that your specimen suffers from the same "copper disease" as mine!

I fail to understand the need for different values as on the Reverse it is clearly stated that a 1s per ₤ reduction is given. I take it that on a bill of 60d (5 shillings) a cashback of 3d is given this would be irrespective of a 3d or a 2/6 token is handed in. So why the different values?

In practice a table must have been used to determine the cashback as it is not easy to determine what amount would have to be be returned on say a 7/8¼ bill, without using a calculator (answer 4½d)

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 11:38:23 PM »
I think they must be a dividend to be collected later rather like the co-op tokens. I.E. at at the end of a period - probably quarterly.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:50:07 PM by malj1 »
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline africancoins

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 08:57:33 PM »
I read it as though if you spent 2 Pounds and 10 Shillings then they would give you a 2 Shillings and 6 Pence token for you to spend another day in their shop as 2 Shillings and 6 Pence .....

Or if you only spent 5 Shillings then they would give you a 3 Pence token for you to spend another day in their shop as 3 Pence .....

Then if 3 Pence was the smallest token they had, then your discount pay-out of 5 per cent (1 Shilling in the Pound) would always be round down to the nearest whole multiple of 3 Pence.

So if you spent 11 Shillings then they would give you 6 Pence in tokens...

But perhaps for these "discounts" would you have to have been a member...

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 11:36:07 PM »
I think they must be dividend checks similar to the co-op checks, anything else would be too messy.

Quote:
....Metallic checks were introduced in the mid 19th century by co-operative societies to enable members to obtain their dividend from purchases made at the store.  The system was simple to operate.  Checks were issued equal to the sum spent in the store, and were retained by the member until the quarterly or half yearly dividend was declared, the checks were then taken to the co-op office to be redeemed for cash.  If the dividend was declared at 2/- in the pound, £5 in purchases would result in 10/- in coin of the realm....

Read more here under Co-op Checks & Tokens

Although of course 1/- in the pound rather than 2/- !

Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline africancoins

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 01:16:02 AM »
Yes - perhaps that is a better explanation.

I guess co-op pay-outs would vary but these tokens worked at a fixed 5 per cent rate. Also - evidently the H.E. Whitehouse tokens meant those paying by account got other terms and of course the total spent by those customers with an account was recorded on the account.

With systems where the rate varied, I wonder if people ever took a chance and saved their tokens until the next pay-out day, if the pay-out rate was low ?

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 01:43:42 AM »
Quote from: africancoins link=topic=40580.msg257043#msg257043

With systems where the rate varied, I wonder if people ever took a chance and saved their tokens until the next pay-out day, if the pay-out rate was low ?

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Yes the link I gave above does mention the more affluent members did precisely that.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 09:30:53 AM by Figleaf »
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Henk

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 08:03:41 PM »
Good explanation! The tokens are rather flimsy so one would not expect them to have a substantial value. The 3d would be worth only 0.15d which is a bit more that half a farthing! While the 6d, 1s and 2/6 tokens had a worth of only 0.3d, 0.6d and 1.5d respectively.  Especially for the 3 and 6d ones probably not worth the bother. It seems unlikely that lower value pieces exist. There might exist a 2s and higher values like 5s and 1 Pound.

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 10:49:59 PM »
You are looking at these with 21st century eyes, "... the 3 and 6d ones probably not worth the bother..." they were in fact quite large amounts at the time they were issued. I would expect a penny to exist and probably the halfpenny too.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Henk

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 10:52:05 AM »
When, as you state “Checks were issued equal to the sum spent in the store” and , “If the dividend was declared at 2/- in the pound, £5 in purchases would result in 10/- in coin of the realm”. Then a 3d token would, at 1/- in the pound, result in 0.15d in coin of the realm.

It would of course be different if the tokens were given out at face value. Thus upon a sum of 5/- spent a 3d token would be given which would then be worth 3d which is indeed substantial and 1d and ½d token are likely to have been in use as well.

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2017, 01:12:27 PM »
They were indeed given out at face value, as I said "Checks were issued equal to the sum spent in the store”

You handed them all in at the ended of the quarter and in this way proving how much you had spent. You were then paid the dividend of "1 Shilling in the Pound" on the total of the checks handed in.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline malj1

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Re: H.E. Whitehouse Grocer
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2019, 12:48:13 PM »
Another search today but no further forward, not a glimpse of H.E. Whitehouse Grocer anywhere. >:(
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.