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Author Topic: real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low  (Read 279 times)

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Offline Michiel

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real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low
« on: September 13, 2017, 12:09:16 PM »
Just bought this golden coin, but i have a  little strange feeling with it.

The size is 18,90-18,91 mm, in all the catalogs it is an 19 mm coin.
thick: 0,79 mm
weight is 3,17 gram, my scale is very good. So it is 1,5% to low, is this the wear only?

The coin is circulated, so a little weight lost is possible. the rim is stil reeded.

good or bad buy???
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 06:09:02 PM by Michiel »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 09:52:02 AM »
These coins have been used for small time speculation in gold for 150 years. The good ones were cherry-picked a long time ago. The bad ones are little more than small gold bars. Your coin is badly worn, fully explaining the weight loss. That same weight loss means that it is no longer suited for speculation purposes, as the coins are bought and sold on sight in batches. I presume you got it for gold weight plus a margin. The margin should include VAT @ around 20% and around 3-4% storage cost and profit. If it does, you are in a trap. You can only sell to a gold dealer for gold weight minus VAT and a margin, which means that the gold price must rise by about 45-50% before you can break even.

Whether it is a good or bad buy depends on your taste. If you are happy with the coin as is, you got it at the bottom of the market. Yet, you can buy a significantly better grade coin for little more than what you paid. It will cost money to upgrade.

In general, gold speculation coins are best bought at the point where KM indicates a price indication, rather than "BV" and when the gold price is relatively low or expected to go up. Gold speculation coins include UK pounds, Dutch 10 gulden pieces, French 20 franc pieces, German 10 mark pieces, US 10 dollar pieces, fractions and multiples, unless they are of an uncommon year or mint.

There are also silver speculation pieces, generally 35 to 40 mm in plentiful supply from the same period. To find them, look for lots of "BV" indication in KM.

Peter

An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Michiel

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Re: real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 03:56:03 PM »
Hi peter. It was 90€ inc shipping from a seller i know good. Offcourse i have paided to much for such an worn piece. But sometimes i want to (dutch word: gun het hem) be nice because he wanted it gone.
The 1,5% was not my biggest problem. The size. Or i read 19 mm in the catalogs or 18.8 mm in the barbara ernst catalog (les monnaies francaises depuis 1848). The 18.9 is never to been seen.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 11:31:30 PM »
True, you are the only one who can decide what works for you. Nevertheless, I think you have to do things fully aware of what you are doing and accepting the consequences. Nobody likes to say or hear "why didn't you tell me" when it's too late.

Don't worry too much about a size difference of 2/10th millimetre. The remedy (the leeway the mint master has) may already amount to as much. In addition, callipers are sensitive to measuring the coin in an exact level position. If it is just a little bit skewed when you measure it, you will already find a difference  of 1/10th millimetre. Those who believe in size notations of 1/100th millimetres (two digits behind the decimal points) are obviously deluding themselves.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Michiel

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Re: real or fake gold 10 francs 1860 BB. 1,5% low
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 10:16:25 AM »
With “modern” silver and gold coins the size always fits. That is why i was confused. But also, all those catalogs can get you confused.
Its real, thats in best part :)