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Civic copper of Erivan / small size, dated 1217 AH

Started by saro, August 11, 2017, 09:52:02 AM

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saro

Lovely small civic copper struck on a rectangular flan with a reverse design that I have never seen : ornaments of fishes ?

3,70g / 20mm x 12mm
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

capnbirdseye

An unusual design for sure but whether it could be fishes or stylised birds
Vic

Figleaf

Definitely ornaments. To be exact, two pomegranates, an islamic fertility symbol. See this post.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

An elongated variety of pomegranate  :D , I'm not fully conviced...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Figleaf

Have you compared the other illustrations in that thread? Turn your coin 90° clockwise to see how the symbol fits in with those and note that the leaves of the top of the pomegranate can differ in size from one design to another.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

Sorry Peter, I don't see any similarity  :-\
If the "fleur de lys" symbol on mamluk coins are not what they look like, is it to say that french kings had pomegranates on their crowns  :D
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

aws22

Dear Saro, it is the image of "two fishes" related to the "Zodiac symbol حوت (Pisces), for the 12th month إسفند in the Persian calendar from 20th of February to 20th of March."

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

saro

Thank you Maythem.
Yes,the goldfish is a persian popular symbol; usually a pair of fishes are shown on many persian / afghan coins.
from the net : "Goldfish, it is the symbol for Pisces also known as Fishes, which was relevant in traditional Persian calendar. Iranians put goldfishes in Haft-Seen to indicate that the new year starts from this month. Nowadays it is also a symbol for Victory, Exhilaration, Blessing, etc."

in center the two curved lines are clearly swords.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

aws22

Well explained, thank you Saro.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

saro

#9
I come back to this small oblong copper....
Some time ago (2 years may be ?) I found on the web a picture of a coin with the same style and arrangement of legend but of double weight : 7,43g /23,8mm .
It seems to me that they both belong to the same series and could be a half and a full falus (1/2 bisti and 1/4 ?)
It appears that this last coin of Erivan (Irevan) with a stylised lion is one of the three civic coppers illustrated in the "Handbook of Islamic Coins" by Michael Broome (picture 290)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)