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Author Topic: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes  (Read 233 times)

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Offline eurocoin

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Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« on: July 14, 2017, 10:08:20 AM »
In the Daily Mail this morning.


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 11:23:19 AM »
I suspect this is fake news. To begin with, the source (Daily Mail) is highly suspect. This is not a newspaper but an anger generator. It should carry a health warning.

Furthermore, the model is unsustainable. A payment to forgo cash is like financing retailers to cross a threshold between cash and plastic. However, there is no way for Visa to check if the threshold has been crossed, because they do not control cash flows. Once the threshold is crossed, payments should stop, but how could Visa discriminate against retailers who have done what they wanted?

That said, Visa has an obvious interest to promote plastic. It will be planning actions to develop its business if it is not in dire financial trouble. That is just marketing (also a form of fake news). It will take another form than infinite payments to retailers.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline EWC

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 03:40:18 PM »
I suspect this is fake news.

Yes - I agree.  50 x 10K outlay.  Peanuts to these guys, and yet carried by all the major news outlets.

Could you buy the (publicity) space so cheaply?

Rob

Offline Alan71

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 06:44:23 PM »
Even if it was true, how much custom would these shops and restaurants lose by refusing cash?  Visa would have to compensate them well.  I still use cash more than cards.  I only really use cards for online purchases or if I haven't got enough cash on me.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 10:31:14 PM »
Even if it was true, how much custom would these shops and restaurants lose by refusing cash?

Thought the same.

Marketing ploy or not, I have heard The Royal Mint is keeping an eye on it.

Offline AardHawk

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 12:28:45 PM »
I seldom carry cash now that contactless payment is available. There was a report in the paper the other day saying contactless was expected to overtake cash payment within three years.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 01:09:52 PM »
Note the passive voice (no source) and the symbolic, wholly unscientific use of the number three. Distrust predictions in general and predictions containing the date 2020 or the numbers 1, 3, 5 10, 20 and 100 in particular. :'(

Example: in London, you can use your credit card to travel on public transport. Except that foreign credit cards will attract fees for every transaction. Back to paper tickets bought with cash...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline AardHawk

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 08:14:08 PM »
Errrr. Did I miss something?????

Offline chrisild

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 12:35:50 AM »
Back to paper tickets bought with cash...

If you were able to get that cash "free" (i.e. no exchange fees), great. But most people do not have that option, so does it really matter whether it is a bureau de change or your credit card company that charges the fee? :)

AardHawk - May well be that more people will make contactless payments in the near future. For me, it does not make a big difference whether I insert the card (so that the chip is read) or hold it against a reader (contactless). I use both but I also use cash ...

Christian

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 12:56:17 AM »
The bureau de change charges fees only once, when you change the money. The credit card company charges for every transaction outside the euro zone, so you get hit by the minimum fee every time you use your credit card to ride public transport. That doubles the price of the ticket.

Another alternative, the oyster card, is cumbersome, because not all stations will sell it or take it back. That's important if you don't come often. If you keep the card, you risk confiscation of the amount you paid for the card plus the credit left on it. When staying in my regular hotel on the DLR, I need to travel four stations (here's no way to park there) to get the cash back and buy a single ride back to the hotel. Similar story if I leave from City Airport at an ungodly hour. That's not worth the bother for a short stay or travelling with luggage.

That leaves only paper tickets bought from cash-eating machines, exactly the opposite of what policy makers want to achieve. At least they give me nice commemoratives in change.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2017, 02:33:51 PM »
hit by the minimum fee

Ah, that may indeed make a difference. My credit cards don't have that - outside the euro area, one incurs a 1.75% fee, the other one 2%, regardless of the amount. Usually I still buy some cash "here" or "there" when traveling to non-euro countries, but in Los Angeles for example I use a TAP card that I charge up using cash or plastic, whatever I have at hand ...

Now businesses in the UK and their "domestic" customers may well say that none of these issues would affect them. I just don't know whether it would be a wise move to ditch means of payment that can be used by anybody and replace them with others that work fine for some and are cumbersome (or even impossible to use) for others.

Christian

Offline EWC

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Re: Visa plan to pay shops to ditch coins and notes
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 01:18:24 PM »
Another alternative, the oyster card, is cumbersome, because not all stations will sell it or take it back. That's important if you don't come often. If you keep the card, you risk confiscation of the amount you paid for the card plus the credit left on it.

Yes, and you risk confiscation if you use it too.  I used to drive down to London a couple of times a year, park out at Cockfosters, and take the tube into town, with enough on the oyster card to cover all six zones for the full day.  A couple of times the card was voided half way through day leaving me stranded.  Probably because I left a "station" without realising it - in the course of changing platforms where there were no gates, just machines hidden in corners.  There is no rational reason to write the software that way that I can see.  I loaded the card with cash, but was arrogantly refused an on the spot reload by staff despite the fact they could figure out exactly what had happened.  And subsequently arrogantly refused a refund unless I registered the card and gave out all my bank details etc.

Last time I was at Cockfosters station staff had put up a blackboard with a chalked notice, advising day trippers always to buy a paper ticket with cash - so I am rather sure I am far from the only out of town guy complaining about this.  Staff at Cockfosters would not divulge further details - not surprising I judge this just one more electric money matter where remote management did not seem to give a damn about the ordinary punter.