Author Topic: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?  (Read 280 times)

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Offline Pellinore

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Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« on: June 12, 2017, 11:38:12 PM »
I just bought this silver Chaganian drachm (these are from the 6th-7th century, issued in what's now the far southeast of Uzbekistan), and Iím curious to know what you think of it.

I canít find the likes in the little Kuznetsov catalog (Katalog monyet Chaganiana V-VIII vv, Tashkent 1994). Or in the Sylloge Nummorum Sasanidarum Usbekistan (Vienna 2012). Has it been clipped? The weight is 1.7 gr, but thatís within the known range of weights. There are no countermarks. The reverse looks double struck, but also less clear than the standard Chaganian reverse.

I hope somebody of this very knowledgeable forum is willing to share his knowledge concerning this type of coins. Iím not an expert, but a loving amateur. 
-- Paul


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 11:03:05 AM »
A difficult one, Pellinore. I haven't even worked out yet where Chagan was (there are two rivers in Kazakstan called Chagan, but in both cases, the name is derived from a Mongol word). Your documentation is better than mine, since I don't have the Kuznetsov book, but I haven't found your coin in the Sylloge Nummorum Sasanidarum Usbekistan either.

I am sure you have already seen the Sassanian influence. This - and the metal used - contrasts completely with the issues of Chach, that run until the VIIth century. My best guess is that it would be a coin of one of the Turkic tribes that eventually overran Chach. Your coin reminds me of the late 8th century Turco-Hephtalite dirhems. I wonder if your coin is a prototype of this series.

The coin does not look clipped and if its weight is normal it would not be. In fact, I am not sure coins were clipped at all in this time/space, e.g. because they went by weight, at least for large transactions.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 02:59:28 PM »
I like the portrait style, but i do think the coin is clipped. This simply because i know this Tokharistan type from specimen with a more sasanian style rim.
Look for similar specimen in this Zeno category.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 04:44:28 PM »
Strangely enough, all the comparable coins at Zeno have been countermarked. But this one hasn't. Well, at the end of the week I will be able to measure the diameter.
-- Paul

Offline THCoins

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 06:17:59 PM »
Quote
Strangely enough, all the comparable coins at Zeno have been countermarked

But most of the countermarks are placed in the margins, so could just be clipped off.
Did you read the Unesco Silkroad project part on Tokharistan ? Not primarily coinage focussed, but i found it an interesting read.
Link to PDF

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 08:02:55 PM »
The countermarks are always on the rim, but in my case, the rim is intact. And yes, I had seen it, a very interesting article about an elusive period and place.
-- Paul

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 06:56:18 PM »
The coin now has arrived. The diameter is 21 mm, the weight 1,66 gr. I'm certain it has not been clipped. Here are some detail pictures, and this is a gif of the rim (slide the bar at the right side a bit down), it's almost like a serrated coin. And it's also quite clear it was never countermarked, for in that case the diamond edge points would have been depressed in places.
-- Paul


Offline THCoins

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 07:29:26 PM »
Congratulations you now have it in your hands.
I only fail to understand why you think you can be certain it has not been clipped. The similar types on Zeno have a diameter between 27 and 29 mm. Your diameter would be perfectly compatible with the inner part of these types. The serrated edges only confirm that the rim has been worked on Šfter the coin was struck in my opinion.
Regardles of this, i still think it is a very nice piece !

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 09:09:33 PM »
If it was clipped, it must have been done with pinking shears! The edge is not smooth, but ribbed.
-- Paul

Offline THCoins

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 10:11:05 PM »
Clipped first, filed later. Thats easier than trying to produce such an edge through hammering, i would say.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Chaganian drachm (about 600 AD). Can you help?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2017, 01:33:00 AM »
As it turns out, all 103 Chaganian coins of this type in the Sylloge Nummorum Sasanidarum Usbekistan have broad rims (and many are broken and cut). The obverse is comparable to some of these coins, but the top of the king's crown of my coin is missing anyhow. I think you are right, although it must have been a lot of trouble to put the coin into that shape.
-- Paul