Author Topic: Re: The denomination structure of currency  (Read 120 times)

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Offline EWC

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Re: The denomination structure of currency
« on: May 16, 2017, 02:53:52 PM »
Currency denomination structure, what we might call the “D-set”,  is a regular topic on WOC, it’s a matter that long interested me, so naturally I have made brief comment from time to time.  Replies I have got on the theoretical aspects, primarily from <k> and Fosseway,  are of course of interest, but perhaps inevitably tend to miss the points I was trying to get at in brief comment, concerning this profoundly complicated matter

I still have my first draft attempt to publish something on the philosophical and economic underpinnings of the D-set, dated 17th August 1981.  A successful attempt, this spring, after many rejections, took 36 years in all.

I still believe that almost everything currently being taught in universities about denomination structure is wrong, and of course seek debate of that view.

The full typescript of my article is here

https://www.academia.edu/33034920/Maria_Graham_and_the_Problem_of_Small_Change

I have also set up a discussion session associated with the paper, running for the next three weeks -

ask for more details, I think this is the link:

https://www.academia.edu/s/b20243ee76/maria-graham-and-the-problem-of-small-change-authors-typescript-version

Academia.edu requires a one time log in procedure, but I find it worth the effort.

Of course I would be delighted to get comments or criticism of the unorthodox conclusions I reached, here or there.

Rob

Offline THCoins

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2017, 07:49:45 PM »
Congratulations on this result ! I will surely read your article, but may take some time because i am a bit pressed for time because of work related matters. Thirty-six years seems like a long time, but like a good Port wine, good ideas also may only get better through some ripening !

Anthony

Offline <k>

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 12:40:33 PM »
Currency denomination structure, what we might call the “D-set”

Why? Is this a term you have invented? As an Englishman, "D" suggests either decimal or the "D" of £SD / £sd, i.e. denarius.

This is an abstruse subject. I'm not sure I've ever broached the aspects that you are interested in. I plough a very narrow furrow: I have mentioned convenience, and also referred to the size, shape and colour of modern coins in terms of coherence, logic, cognition, and aesthetics.

As for abstruse, well, your article - it's like being invited to have your first drink, only to be offered a litre of pure vodka. However, I'll look at your article (considerably longer than any topic I have posted on WoC!) and ask some basic questions.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 01:27:23 PM »
"After 1717 the mint abandoned attempts to stabilise its gold/silver price ratio, and fixed the metal price to favour the coining of gold. The regular issue of silver coin then declined before it ceased completely in 1760."

"stabilise its gold/silver price ratio" - what does this mean, and how was it operated? Which factors determined the price of these metals in those times?
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Offline <k>

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 01:31:20 PM »
"A small issue in 1787 had no impact – it disappeared quickly from circulation. As Mayhew shows, there was no shortage of silver hoarded as plate in the houses of the rich, but there was no inducement to make it available as coin for the general public. In 1776, for instance, 119,760 troy pounds of silver was hallmarked for plate, but none at all went through the mint."

Silver plate - how was it acquired? Why did the rich like to keep it as plate? What was the Mint's usual method of acquiring the raw materials (metal) necessary for producing the coinage?
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Offline EWC

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 05:34:31 PM »
Hello Anthony, <k>

Thanks for the mails.  Apologies -  I  have got rather bogged down with much discussion elsewhere, will try get back to this later.  But I fear I will find some of the questions rather difficult to deal with <k>.  For instance you ask me why the wealthy kept their silver in plate. 

The what - I have told you

The why - we can only guess at. 

Why was scrooge a miser?

But its clear they did not want to help out fellow citizens in boosting the coin supply I spose

Rob

Offline <k>

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 07:34:17 PM »
Well, that's rather disappointing. You wrote your article in 1993 - I thought you'd be on top of your chosen subject by now.

Perhaps my question regarding how the mint(s) procured silver is more pertinent. I was wondering why they depended on wealthy people to sell them their silver plate.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

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Offline EWC

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 09:09:30 AM »
Perhaps my question regarding how the mint(s) procured silver is more pertinent.

The mint did not procure silver at that date.  It offered a government subsidised service to convert silver into coin free of charge, to any legitimate owners who turned up with some.  None did

I was wondering why they depended on wealthy people to sell them their silver plate.

That is not what I actually said

Although it would seem to be a better plan than depending on poor people to sell them their silver plate.

Would you not agree?

Rob

Offline <k>

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 11:24:53 AM »
The mint did not procure silver at that date.  It offered a government subsidised service to convert silver into coin free of charge, to any legitimate owners who turned up with some.  None did

So how on Earth did the mint manage to get its hands on any silver? This implies that they did not mint any silver coins.

I wrote: "I was wondering why they depended on wealthy people to sell them their silver plate."

Quote
That is not what I actually said

But it's what you appeared to imply.

Quote
Although it would seem to be a better plan than depending on poor people to sell them their silver plate.
Would you not agree?

Truly, you would make a good politician.  ::)  It's hard work getting any sense out of you. I consider that I wasted my time reading your long piece, so I'll leave it at that.  :-X
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

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Offline EWC

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Re: Re: The denomination structure of currency
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 01:04:32 PM »
In 1776, for instance, 119,760 troy pounds of silver was hallmarked for plate, but none at all went through the mint."

This implies that they did not mint any silver coins.

Correct – so what is the problem?   ???

I already apologised about being kind of busy just now with other debates. 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 01:15:22 PM by EWC »