Sweden Transport - Identification

[Rodan61]

Hy guys
Smith & Smith list two SWE 820FT and SWE 820 FU tokens.
These are two coins of a value of 6 ore that differ in the size of the letters of the obverse. I possess this token that fit with description, but I have no comparison to say whether it is FT (large letters) or FU (small letters); someone can help me? Thanks in advance. Antonio

[FosseWay]

I am at work atm but will take a look in Stockholmspolletter later, in case the two variants are actually illustrated there.

[FosseWay]

Unfortunately I can't answer your question precisely.

The variants of the round 6 öre token from SÅAB that are listed in Stockholmspolletter are:

5.B.9.39 punched 6, brass (yours)
5.B.9.41 punched 6, copper
5.B.9.42 struck (relief) 6, brass, with Sporrong's older stamp on the reverse.

No. 39 is also listed in Stiernstedt, which was published in 1872, to give you an idea of date. The copper variant began to be used in 1875. No date is given for No. 42.

[Rodan61]

Thank you for yours notes. 
It seems to understand, therefore, that this token were used between the 60's and 80's in the nineteenth century.

[FosseWay]

Thank you for yours notes. 
It seems to understand, therefore, that this token were used between the 60's and 80's in the nineteenth century.

Yes, I think that is a reasonable conclusion!

[artsmith]

Hi Antonio,
I have the same token as you. I guessed that it is the small letters, but am not sure.
Smith & Smith list the Copper 6 (FV or no.41) as having large letters. If someone has an example of that one, it could be used as a comparison.  It would be a big help if catalogs would give pictures of the variants.

Art

[Rodan61]

Hi Art
I agree with you; The problem with these catalogs is that it is sometimes unclear what the distinction is based on because "small" or "large" are relative concepts that need a comparative reference.

[FosseWay]

The Stockholmspolletter book illustrates 5.B.9.39, which is the token with the punched 6, and it is identical to Rodan61's at the top of this thread. The copper one (5.B.9.41) is not illustrated, but the text simply says "Som nr 39", i.e. "as no. 39".

The struck 6 on 5.B.9.42 (Smith 820 FY) is notably larger, and the line and ÖRE are lower down. I wonder whether there is some confusion between these two, and that either the Smiths, or someone whose information they used, noted the size of the 6s and whether they are punched or struck without also noticing that the punched 6s are small and the struck ones large.

I know that the authors of Stockholmspolletter went through the Smith catalogues to reconcile the numbering and check that all the varieties that could be illustrated were. I am in the middle of doing precisely the same for the Gothenburg book. This should mean that there is a good reason why a variant listed in Smith isn't listed in Stockholmspolletter. Often it's because different catalogues concentrate on different minor variants, and SP doesn't list all the size variants in the Sporrong stamp that Smith does, for example. Another reason could be that the authors of SP didn't have any evidence other than Smith for the existence of a given variant.

But the job of reconciling a list of intended tokens for inclusion with Smith (and other sources) is brain-twisting and time-consuming because of the lack of pictures in the latter. It is entirely possible that the variant does exist and was just missed in SP.

[Rodan61]

 ... Dear Fosse Way, thanks for having shared your knowledge; I agree particularly with the last point: these catalogues should be integrate with the images ..... for this reason it is crucial to help those who spend a lot of their time building online visual catalogs...

[Figleaf]

You have probably already noted that on WoT, we try to give that visual clue and include a description of a handy, measurable point that can be used to distinguish varieties as well. We are of course dependent on those fine people who contribute, but we can always ask them for a clarification.

Peter

[Rodan61]

Dear Peter
My compliments were especially addressed to you, and to the other people like you, that work on these visula catalogues ...
Our greatest thanks and appreciations 

[scroggs]

This may clear this up i have now 4 different 6öre SÅAB tokens . So from what i can see is
Smith Swe 820 FT large Letters                                                                 24.56mm 1.86g  Brass
                        FU Small Letters  S.P 5B.9.39                                             24.58mm 2.49g  Brass
                        FV  large Letters S.P 5B.9.41                                                                       Copper
                        FYa Raised 6  RV701 oval Sporrong Stamp   S.P 5B.9.42   25.1mm 3.54g  Brass
                        FYb Raised 6  RV722 Round Morell Stamp                          24.85mm 2.55g Brass   

All the tokens are a similar size although the thickness of the tokens varies which gives the range of weights.  the letters of FT & FU  are more fatter and thinner than large and small as i measured them and they are the same height  but FT are noticably wider.  The stamped 6 is the same on them both. 


S.P=Stockholmpolletter 

[Figleaf]

I think the asiest way to distinguish these varieties is by the number of pearls of the inner circle between the S of STOCK and the G of BOLAG. It varies from 8 to 12.

Peter