Author Topic: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"  (Read 1767 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2018, 09:31:27 AM »
On January 1, 2002 the Netherlands joined the Eurozone and so abandoned the guilder which had been its currency from the first day of its existence.

Incorrect. The Netherlands started to exist somewhere between 1568 and 1648, during its war of independence with the Spanish Habsburgs. A convenient point would be 1579, the Union of Utrecht, though the act of abjuration (1581) is a good candidate also.

At that point, the standard coins were the gold rose noble (VG-H 255-257), the silver daalder (VG-H 258-259) and the silver stuiver (VG-H 260). Denominations starte to proliferate after 1580, but gulden coins could still be found only among the local emergency issues.

In the course of time, the Rijksdaalder of (mostly) 60 stuivers developed as the big silver standard coin. The small silver standard was the stuiver, with the gulden (20 stuivers) being only one of the many denominations in circulation. The gulden received a more central place - though it replaced neither the stuiver nor the rijksdaalder - only with the reforms in the aftermath of the war of 1672, almost a century after Dutch independence.

One option for a correction is to replace "the Netherlands" with "the kingdom of the Netherlands"

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2018, 09:43:37 AM »
You are right, but for the sake of completeness, the collection of the Dutch Central Bank contains a pattern for a 2 Gulden of this type.

Peter

Interesting. Hopefully the piece is still in the collection. When I some time ago enquired about an extremely rare British piedfort 50p of 1973 in its collection which was at the time gifted by the Royal Mint to the directors of certain European mints and other high officials, it turned out it had magically been replaced with the standard edition. :-X

Quote
Incorrect. The Netherlands started to exist somewhere between 1568 and 1648, during its war of independence with the Spanish Habsburgs. A convenient point would be 1579, the Union of Utrecht, though the act of abjuration (1581) is a good candidate also.

At that point, the standard coins were the gold rose noble (VG-H 255-257), the silver daalder (VG-H 258-259) and the silver stuiver (VG-H 260). Denominations starte to proliferate after 1580, but gulden coins could still be found only among the local emergency issues.

In the course of time, the Rijksdaalder of (mostly) 60 stuivers developed as the big silver standard coin. The small silver standard was the stuiver, with the gulden (20 stuivers) being only one of the many denominations in circulation. The gulden received a more central place - though it replaced neither the stuiver nor the rijksdaalder - only with the reforms in the aftermath of the war of 1672, almost a century after Dutch independence.

One option for a correction is to replace "the Netherlands" with "the kingdom of the Netherlands"

Peter

Point taken.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2018, 11:58:38 AM »
On January 1, 2002 the Netherlands joined the Eurozone

I think I mentioned this before, but since the part quoted above was posted again yesterday ... The Netherlands did not join the euro area on that date. The country was one of the 11 European Union member states where the euro was introduced on 1 January 1999. In late 2001, the first euro and cent coins were issued, and on 1-1-02 that cash became legal tender.

(Almost a boilerplate post, as I am used to people from outside the euro area asking why some pieces are dated 1999, 2000, etc. :) )

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2018, 12:41:23 PM »
Introduced on 1 January 1999; in late 2001 the first euro and cent coins were issued; on 1-1-02 that cash became legal tender.

So, from 1999 to late 2001, the Dutch used a coinage that was either invisible or didn't exist. Well, the UK issued decimal coins in 1968 and 1969, but we didn't decimalise until 1971 - but at least the pre-1971 coins existed. Somebody needs to do a post (maybe it's already there) describing the 1999 to pre-2002 situation for euro zone victims. Probably you or Figleaf would be the ideal candidate.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2018, 01:18:57 PM »
Yes, I am aware of the word "coinage" in the topic title. That is why I would not want to make the mistake a big issue - after all, the original topic is about Dutch coins. :) People who are interested in the euro introduction dates can look them up here for example ...

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2018, 12:55:06 PM »
Congratulations on finishing this topic, eurocoin. (Assuming it is finished). I see you started it back in July 2016 - or maybe sooner, because some of the topics in this series were originally briefly released and then re-released - if I remember correctly.

When I did my own "Milestones" series for my own country, the UK, back in 2011, I finished it in three months. Mind you, often I stayed up into the early morning, as it became an obsession with me. Since then, I have updated the topics to improve the presentation, and I have now reached the stage where others will take over some of the topics. Here I would like to ask why your series is taking so long? I do vaguely remember some of the reasons, involving the difficulties of categorising some coin issues, but your answers could raise some interesting questions for debate by our members, thereby improving our understanding of the subject.

Above all, I would like to congratulate you on this topic, which is so well presented. An excellent topic requires excellence in both form and content. The content is indeed superb, in my opinion, and many of the images are equally superb. My only quibble is that you have included the euro coins. The title of this section is "Modern European coins except the euro". In my opinion, you should have placed the euro coins in the euro section, with a link from this topic to a similar topic in the euro section, discussing the Dutch euro coins. However, that is a minor quibble, as I say.

This topic is of course just part of a wider series. Many people may not know the political and constitutional facts about the Kingdom of the Netherlands and its various constituents. Here they can learn about them. Not only that, they can see the most important coins. Perhaps there are Dutch sites that provide a similar high-level experience, but I suspect that this is the only one in the English language, which therefore will potentially reach a much wider audience.

My question now is, do you have any news for us about future additions to this series of topics?

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Milestones in the coinage of the Netherlands"
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »
Congratulations on finishing this topic, eurocoin. (Assuming it is finished).

How dare you to forget our Kaiser William >:( Anyway thanks for your kind message. I have yesterday checked the entire topic based on my coin catalog and have come to the conclusion that now only the Willem Alexander coinage portrait still has to be added. Furthermore some slight changes still have to be made which I expect to finish soon. But then indeed another topic has been completed.

My question now is, do you have any news for us about future additions to this series of topics?

2 topics have yet to be released. A topic about the Netherlands Indies and then an overview topic. The latter won't take too much time to make as I will then have all necessary images at hand. The Netherlands Indies topic is still proving a bit of a challenge.

Here I would like to ask why your series is taking so long? I do vaguely remember some of the reasons, involving the difficulties of categorising some coin issues, but your answers could raise some interesting questions for debate by our members, thereby improving our understanding of the subject.

Well, there are 2 things that have taken a lot of time. First of all the fact that this has been done nowhere else. Not a single coin catalog lists changes in a chronological order. It is a lot of puzzling to form a list with all significant changes in chronological order. The fact that certain (former) parts of the Kingdom hardly ever issued an entire modified series but rather spread the changes over several years and each year only a few denominations were changed makes things even more complicated.

Furthermore it is also very annoying is that it appears that the more common a coin is (and these are all circulating coins with a high mintage), the lower the value and the fewer effort sellers will do to make high quality images. Also the older the coin, the harder it is to find a high quality photo of a high quality specimen. I am glad that you are satisfied with the quality of the images in the topic. It has taken an awful lot of work to get them all together.

Lastly there are several less interesting reasons why you were finished in 3 months while I am taking years. If only because my topics begin around 1830 and yours only include coins that were minted after decimalisation in 1971. Also of course I have significantly less time on my hands then you do. 

My only quibble is that you have included the euro coins. The title of this section is "Modern European coins except the euro". In my opinion, you should have placed the euro coins in the euro section, with a link from this topic to a similar topic in the euro section, discussing the Dutch euro coins. However, that is a minor quibble, as I say.

I will take it into consideration.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 02:19:46 PM by eurocoin »