login

Author Topic: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"  (Read 700 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15 263
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »
One coin you could add at some time is the 2 francs 1944 minted in Philadelphia. It is not a coin issued by Vichy, but it came with operation Torch and therefore circulated in Vichy territory.

Belgium had a similar two francs liberation issue - see here

As for modern commemoratives, lots of countries have issued some, of course, including Gibraltar - see  here.

Offline chrisild

  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7 528
  • NW · DE · EU
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2017, 02:42:03 PM »
So, given all this, would it have been worth the time and expense of replacing the old coinage?

Well, my thoughts were not about money supply - I primarily had the "political message" in mind. I mean, in several occupied countries/territories the nazi regime replaced the old money with new issues. In the Netherlands, for example, the Queen had to "go". And in France they allowed coins to stay in circulation that refer to Liberty and Equality? Tsk tsk tsk. ;)

Christian

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15 263
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2017, 06:12:22 PM »
The Nazis allowed Vichy some nominal independence, and they evidently had higher priorities than the look of the coinage. Also, the cynical Nazis had plenty of leverage where the most pressing issues (for them) were concerned.

Offline chrisild

  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7 528
  • NW · DE · EU
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 12:18:20 PM »
they evidently had higher priorities than the look of the coinage

Yeah, quite possibly or very likely so. Totalitarian regimes tend to replace "everyday" symbols that do not suit them. But even back home in the Reich the nazis did, for example, never replace the Fraktur characters on the coins with Antiqua, despite Hitler's order from January 1941.

Christian

Offline Dave M

  • Reader
  • Posts: 2
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2017, 12:48:59 AM »
Thanks very much for this great write-up <k>, it was an enjoyable read. I registered in the forum to read and reply. I don't know if you have or plan to write about the Free French in a similar fashion, but here are a couple images you're welcome to use if you like.

Dave





Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15 263
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2017, 02:14:44 AM »
Glad you liked it, Dave. I'm not well up on the Free French - would require a lot of searching and reading first, especially as regards the coins. How about you - how's your knowledge? You could always start a topic and see what response you get. It would be a great counterpart to my topic.

That's a fascinating-looking coin, BTW. Is that a counter mark? What's the story behind it?

Offline Dave M

  • Reader
  • Posts: 2
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2017, 03:24:06 AM »
Ah, I was hoping you'd say you were an expert in the area and would be writing this next chapter soon :)

I don't know much about them myself. The banknote is quite rare, and "Les Billets de la Banque de l'Indochine" states:
"After the overprint <<BIC>> on the banknotes [earlier issue] ... the Banque de l'Indochine, wishing to show support for the Free French effort, had all the banknotes circulating in Djibouti overprinted with a stamp less anonymous than the first series" (followed by a description of this overprint).

To my understanding the counterstamp on the Morlon coin has the same motivation, to "show support" for the Free French, where the French Colonies were split, some under Vichy, some (including Djibouti) to the Free French.

The banknotes were overprinted from 1943-1945.

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15 263
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2017, 10:54:33 AM »
Thanks, Dave.

The symbols on the French Vichy coins are easy to understand. Beyond that I just gave a relatively detailed overview of the regime, as I've read a lot about that period in European history.  You could try researching your items on the internet and then letting us know what you find. Once you research something, things start to click, and you may be surprised at what you are capable of.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24 911
Re: Comments on "Vichy France: Its history and coinage"
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2017, 10:28:15 PM »
@Dave M: very interesting pieces. Thanks for posting.

The Banque d'Indochine was a French colonial banknote issuing bank. Originally, they had offices in Paris and French colonies in Asia only. From 1888, they ventured into French colonies outside Asia also. The following year saw the opening of offices in China, followed by Hong Kong in 1894. In 1908, they got themselves an office in Djibouti (Côte française des Somalis). As Japanese pressure on French Indochina increased, they opened short-lived offices in Japan.

In 1936, Italy invaded and eventually captured Ethiopia. This may have been an important reason why the colonial government in Djibouti chose to support the Vichy government. The allies reacted by blocking the port of Djibouti, which caused a major famine. In December 1942, Djibouti changed sides and the port was re-opened.

It is clear from this timeline that "Banque de l'Indochine" was the issuer and the addition Djibouti was added only to make clear that the note, dated January 1943, was issued by their Djibouti office, without the permission of their Paris HQ but with the authority of the Free French government - hence the Lorraine cross over the N of FRANCS. I presume that during the famine, money had disappeared, so that when the colony joined the allies, it was in dire need of new banknotes and BIC was able to have them produced and secured.

As for the Morlon brass coins, they were replaced by an aluminium equivalent in 1941. There would have been plenty left in drawers and sofas, but they would no longer have circulated much. They were officially withdrawn in September 1949, having become virtually worthless through inflation. However, during the occupation they could be mortally dangerous if found with the counterpunch "croix de Lorraine", as a hard battle developed between the resistance and Vichy loyalists towards the end of the war. The counterpunch is of course not official, so we will never know when they were applied.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.