Author Topic: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh in Gujarat, the 2nd Alexander, AH1068, KM#271.1  (Read 3470 times)

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Offline asm

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Here is a rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, Surat, KM#271.1. Could some one please help read the couplet / inscription on this coin?
Amit
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 11:43:47 PM by Rangnath »
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Offline Overlord

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 02:12:54 PM »
This coin has the Irs couplet:

Giraft Irs Ze Saheb Kuran Shahe Jahani,
Murad Baksh Shah Muhammad Sikandar Sani


Took the heritage of the Lord of Conjunctions Shah Jahan,
Murad Baksh Muhammad Shah, the second Alexander

Offline asm

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 02:17:26 PM »
Overlord,
Thanks a ton. Was a similar couplet used by any other Mughal Ruler?
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Overlord

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 05:09:49 AM »
Overlord,
Thanks a ton. Was a similar couplet used by any other Mughal Ruler?
Amit
There were others who used "Saheb Kuran".
Here is a painting of Murad Baksh. It appears he could levitate!




Offline Figleaf

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 12:58:52 PM »
The first Alexander couldn't levitate :) He did have a sword though, for cutting knots. Why the veneration for the Macedonian homosexual warlord?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 09:11:19 PM »
You make him sound so sordid and limited Figleaf!  Alexander the Great, one of my favorite fine featured World Conquerors was able to stir both the hearts and genitalia of both men and women!  :D

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 10:55:48 PM »
I understand you reaction, having visited (and greatly enjoyed) Hastings. However, in most other countries, invaders and conquerers are usually not looked upon kindly and very, very seldom used as role model. Hence my confused question.

Bisexual? He was married but not too interested in the privileges of married life, I gather.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Rupee of Muhammad Murad Bakhsh, KM#271.1
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 09:42:23 PM »
Still he got a son from the Sogdian beauty Roxana.

Offline asm

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A coin of this type was recently posted on Fb and there was a very interesting discussion on the couplet. The final couplet is now decoded as:

Alfaaz Husain: Shailen Bhandare Sir, on this coin there doesn't seem to be a 'Re' before Ft ( the divider) instead there seems an Alif before it. Could the word be 'YAFT' and not 'GIRAFT? You had once suggested the couplet as:
Arth Giraft ze Sahibqiran Shahjahani / Muhammad Murad Shah Sikandar-i-Thani
And a variant
Arth Giraft ze Shahjahan Sahibqirani / Muhammad Murad Shah Sikandar-i-Thani. (Replacing Yaft with Giraft wouldn't make much difference in meaning though).

Shailen Bhandare: Alfaaz Husain The alif of the word یافت is quite clear on this coin. Moreover, یافت would make better sense with ارث - patrimony, which was "received / found" by Murad Shah from Shahjahan, rather than گرفت which means it just "was" his.

Alfaaz Husain: So we have finally cracked this entire couplet. Thanks sir.

Sohail Khan: Shailen is correct. Compare with Nanak couplet of Yaft.

Harun A. Shaikh: Bottom line - irs ze gi - ft divider - "re" of giraft before shaheb ???

Alfaaz Husain: Bottom line is irs and Snah Ahd before Sahib its 'ze' Harun A. Shaikh.  Another small correction in your suggested couplet Shailen Bhandare sir, it would be Irs and not Arth. As in Steingass: Irsارث is verbal noun of Varasورث ; VN (ورثہ) which also means inheriting. Is Hindi word Virasat also derived from ورثه ?

Shailen Bhandare: Alfaaz Husain, Yes, so is وارث = inheritor, which appears in couplet of Bidar Bakht - all come from the same root.

Jan Lingen: Shailen, to finalise this interesting discussion, may I conclude that the couplet should read: "Irs Yaft ze sahibqiran shahjahani / muhammad murad shah sikandar-i-thani"
Or the variant:
"Irs Yaft ze shahjahan sahibqirani / muhammad murad shah sikandar-i-thani"
(Received the patrimony from Shah Jahan, the ‘Lord of conjunctions, Muhammad Murad Shah, the second Alexander.)

Shailen Bhandare: Jan Lingen. Yes, these would be the two definite contenders. The actual placement of letters on the coin favours the first version. But the second alternative is also valid considering placement can often be variable.  I'd request Sohail Khan Sahib or Sanjay Garg to suggest additions of izafats to words like "Shah-i Jahan" or "Sahib-i Qiran" in case they have an impact on the "weight" of the syllables in the couplets.

Sanjay Garg: Shailen Bhandare, First line could have 'Shah-i Jahan' and Sahib-Qirani', thus: Irs yaft ze Shah-i Jahan Sahib-Qirani. Alternatively, (more plausible reading) would be: Irs yaft ze Sahib-i Qiran Shah Jahani.

Sohail Khan "Zahay Nasseb". Shailen Bhayya, first I need to know what is after "Waris" [I detest Asiatic Society's "th" for "Say". It is uncalled for in Persian speaking culture e.g. we cannot have Thurayya, Thuboot, Thani and Warith going on in our culture].
I suspect it can be "Warisay Mulk" or Warisa Umam, or Warisay --- etc. I agree with Jan that it could/should be :
Muhammad Murad Shah Sikandaray Sani / Waris--- Yaft ze Shahjahan Sahibqiran
As for Shahjahani: It is a misfit here; This is comparable to Humayuni, (Adlay) Jahangiri etc and does not go here. I realise that Shahjahanay, Sahebqiranay is written in many places, but that is calligraphic prermissiveness e.g. Bulbulay --for one Bulbul; Marday for one man --and here the writing is with the longer Ye.

I have copied this here for the benefit of the interested members here. I have also made suitable changes in the conversation and deleted some out of context / unimportant comments.

AMit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Figleaf

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Thank you, Amit. Useful addition to the thread.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.