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Author Topic: Fake 5 pence pieces  (Read 392 times)

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Offline mrbadexample

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Fake 5 pence pieces
« on: March 09, 2017, 11:37:31 AM »
Greetings all.

I wondered what you might make of these. I found them in the car park at the NEC in Birmingham. I think I had 4 but seem to have lost one.

These are in such poor condition that I have trouble believing they're real. Each comes in at 3.2g (on my scales that are limited to one decimal place) as opposed to 3.3g for a genuine coin. There is no edge reeding.

I cannot conceive of any circumstance in which counterfeiting a 5p is either profitable or practical.

Any thoughts?

If anyone here collects such curiosities or just wants a closer look, speak up and I'll pop them in the post. I don't think they're particularly valuable.  :D

MBE

Offline andyg

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2017, 08:30:30 PM »
These I think have been in some industrial dryer....
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline malj1

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 09:31:00 PM »
Yes that would be it, I was trying to think how this could have happened. ...most unlikely to be fakes.
Malcolm
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Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2017, 11:50:49 PM »
These I think have been in some industrial dryer....

Interestingly, this has also been suggested on another forum.

Offline andyg

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 12:30:15 AM »
Here a 50p that's been similarly mistreated I found just last week  :-[
(it doesn't work in the self scan machines at the supermarket so I'm gonna have to try spending it in person somewhere...)

Not sure what state a coin would end up in if you left it on a motorway to get repeatedly run over.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2017, 04:17:24 PM »
Stuff doesn't get repeatedly run over on motorways - it naturally gets pinged to the sides. If you've ever had the misfortune to break down and need to drive on the hard shoulder, it becomes abundantly clear where all the crap from the roadway ends up!

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 09:02:08 PM »
But even if it did it would be scratched to bits from abrasion on the tarmac. These are all mushy in detail but kind of smooth.  :-\

Offline redwine

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Offline malj1

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2017, 06:26:19 AM »
Hopeful!  :o

I saved a couple of images, the poor Queen has huffed and she's puffed to blow the house down!  ;D
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 08:54:20 AM »
After coins are struck, they are cleaned with an abrasive cleaning agent that is subsequently washed off. The blurred coins might be explained by the cleaning agent not having been washed away. However, I am at a loss to explain how only one side could have been blurred within the mint.

Peter
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Offline andyg

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2017, 11:24:03 AM »
I've seen similar coins described as being "struck through grease"
as one side is near enough perfect this one hasn't been in some dryer...
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2017, 07:22:55 PM »
I've seen similar coins described as being "struck through grease"
as one side is near enough perfect this one hasn't been in some dryer...

Providing the seller isn't trying to pull a fast one and the pictures are actually two sides of the same coin. At the height of the dateless 20p hysteria there were a number of wide boys trying to convince people that a pre-2008 obverse and post-2008 reverse photographed side by side belonged to the same coin.

Offline redwine

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 08:03:27 PM »
I've seen similar coins described as being "struck through grease"
as one side is near enough perfect this one hasn't been in some dryer...

Praps it was given the hair dryer.  Sir Alex strikes again!  >:D
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Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 09:06:55 PM »
As it only affects the obverse, is this not more likely to be a capped-die error?  ???

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Fake 5 pence pieces
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2017, 09:39:39 PM »
I am now the proud possessor of mrbadexample's peculiar 5 pence coins  ;D

Now I've got them in hand (and between calipers and on a scale) I would tend to agree with andyg on the heating theory - they have probably been pyrolised or something. (My oven will pyrolise to 500C - would this be enough to deform coins?) They are not perfectly round, as if picked up with tongs while soft, and the edges are slightly compressed, giving diameters of 17.2-17.7 rather than 18 mm. Weightwise they are slightly under (an untampered one weighs 3.3 g or so, these weigh 3.1-3.2 g) - not sure if that's within the tolerance? Perhaps some slivers of metal came away on the tongs.

What I am pretty convinced about is that the coin shown in redwine's link above is not the result of the same process, regardless of whether the reverse is actually untouched or not. The obverse is still perfectly round and there are no significant disturbances to the rim, quite unlike these three. The chances that redwine's is a genuine error rather than after-mint tampering is therefore much greater.