Author Topic: 1769 silver 30 kreuzer Joseph II, extra info wanted  (Read 857 times)

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Offline Michiel

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1769 silver 30 kreuzer Joseph II, extra info wanted
« on: January 31, 2017, 11:22:49 AM »
I bought this 1769 30 kreuzer from joseph II.

The 30 kreuzers from maria i can find enough about, but i was wondering what the silver amount is, has anybody an good catalog?

6,666 gram
29,3 mm
krause: km2071
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 12:02:22 PM by Michiel »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: 1769 silver 30 kreuzer Joseph II, extra info wanted
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 09:04:12 PM »
Your question is and is not easy to answer.

In theory, this should have been a Konventionsmünze on the "20 Gulden fuß" (1753), i.e. it should have a fineness of 833.333. However, its fine silver weight should have been 1/40 of a Cologne Mark, or 5.8464 grams. That amounts to a coin of 7.0157 grams. It's too light to be a Konventionsmünze.

In practice, Austria used the Kronenthaler Fuß. A Kronenthaler was 29.44 gram fine silver. The problem is that the Kronenthaler was divided in sols, not in groschen. An additional problem is that Austria got involved in a series of wars, notable against the Ottoman empire. It is unclear how this worked out on Austrian coins, but it is very clear that in 1815, during the Vienna congress, nobody trusted Austrian coins, especially the half and quarter thalers (a Thaler was 120 kreuzer.)

The first reforms were made only in 1837. In the period 1755-1837, the silver value of - especially minor - Austrian coins must have diminished significantly. However, there are no precise numbers. Weights even differed from one mint to another, which caused a come-back of picking out and re-melting relatively heavy coins, while light coins remained in circulation. The official Austrian explanation is that the standard for minting new coins was the average of coins in circulation. That amounted to moving goal posts.

So why is the question also easy to answer? Well, look at KM 1834, the same coin, but with a portrait of Maria Theresa, also with a cross behind the date, indicating a Konventions coin. KM says it is 6.68 gram and has a fineness of 0.583. I have no idea what their source is, but if they are right, that should be true for your coin also.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Michiel

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Re: 1769 silver 30 kreuzer Joseph II, extra info wanted
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 12:00:36 PM »
Peter,

the km1834 was also the only one i found that was listed with the silver amount. But because the krause is giving so little silver amounts for that period with there coins I didn't wanted to take the km1834 for granted.

That the period was difficult was clear. Maria is on the coins, joseph II is in that period "working" together this his mother, so for me it's a little strange that they had there own coins.