Author Topic: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?  (Read 528 times)

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Offline jsalgado

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Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« on: December 05, 2016, 07:38:03 PM »
71,48 g  ;   60 x 50/55 mm  ; it seems gold(?) but now I am not sure. Many thanks for your help.







Offline Figleaf

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2016, 10:14:03 AM »
Magnificent. I would guess a brass trial plate for some home-made dies (the lettering is a bit clumsy, especially the central line on the centre stamp) and counterstamps were typically applied to corners and centre, not all over. I hope someone knows more about what is being imitated here. I see some vague resemblance with the East India Company's VOC logo, adapted for the fact that in Brazil, the operative company was the West India Company, but that may well be a coincidence. I am sure I would have fallen hard for this puzzle if I had encountered it.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2019, 12:27:41 PM »
I noticed the size of the stamps vary, on checking Krause I see most of the stamps are there.

3, 6 and 12 florin issued during Dutch occupation.

I didn't get the P.J.B.  ???
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 12:39:03 PM by malj1 »
Malcolm
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 02:26:18 PM »
Looks like the plate was a trial piece then as Peter thought. At times I've come across obviously unrelated stamps on a coin which I've always thought were trials too...probably by a die sinker as advertising. Something to show potential customers.

Bruce
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Offline malj1

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2019, 07:51:23 AM »
A Dutch effort at colonising Brazil in the 1600s ultimately failed, but left a legacy of emergency coinage for collectors.

An example of the Brazilian 1646 gold 3-florin ducat (60 stuivers), struck by the Geoctroyeede West-Indische Compagnie (Dutch West India Company) in what is now the Pernambuco region in Brazil, highlights Heritage Auctions’ April 10 to 12 auction in Chicago. (5 years ago)



The coin weighs 1.78 grams. It is “essentially Mint State” in grade, with a small planchet crack, according to the auction house.

The Dutch invaded the Portuguese-held northeast coast of Brazil in 1630, intent on establishing a colonial presence in South America. The Dutch waged battles against the Portuguese colonialists for many years. By the mid-1640s, the Dutch guilder was extremely scarce in the area controlled by the Dutch, until the galleon Zeeland reached port in Recife in September of 1645, carrying gold from Africa. The GWC used some of the precious metal and struck 3-, 6- and 12-guilder (florin) coins.

Today perhaps between 50 and 60 examples of all denominations and years of these emergency coins are known, with roughly 30 percent of them in museums.

After the Dutch surrendered to the Portuguese in early 1654, most of the coins were melted.

Source

..I'm still curious about the other  counter-stamped image P.J.B.
 
Malcolm
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Offline Henk

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2019, 09:21:54 AM »
In 1967 there was a report of the find of a treasure chest during roadworks in Pernambuco. The chest containing more than 1000 pieces of the WIC emergency coins of the years 1645/7 and 1654. Also contained in this find were some copper/brass plates each stamped with a several coin dies. The find was widely publicized at the time as original although it is clear from the crude and primitive look of the coins that these are forgeries. There even was a book published about this find, describing all other pieces from old collections, now mainly in museums, as forgeries!

The story of this find was debunked in a book written by Kurt Prober in 1987, in Portuguese. I attach a photo of the cover and of the first page of the introduction.  A thorough analysis of the WIC emergency coins was published by Hans Jacobi of the Royal Dutch Coin Cabinet in 1995. This publication (in Dutch) can be found here: http://debeeldenaar.nl/wp-content/uploads/archief/De-Beeldenaar/De-Beeldenaar_1995_03.pdf see pages 404-421. Jacobi also showed that some of the coins in the find were not in accord with the proclamations at the time.

The plate with counterstamps shown by Jaime is undoubtedly related to the 1967 “treasure find”. Several of these stamped plates are shown in the book of Prober although not the one shown here.

Offline malj1

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Re: Probably a fantasy counterstamps?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2019, 12:42:23 PM »
Thank you that clears this up nicely. 
Malcolm
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