Author Topic: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage  (Read 8385 times)

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Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2016, 07:14:19 PM »
I joined a Norwegian collectors' forum to ask some questions about these issues, using Google Translate.

Apparently St Olav's mark (or "award" ?), which we see on the occupation coins, is a national symbol, even though it is Christian in origin. So, just as atheists in Britain also sing "God save the Queen" or celebrate St George's day, the symbol is not reserved for Christians alone.

The Olav symbol can also be seen on other Norwegian coins, including the 1 krone of 1908 to 1917 and 1925 to 1951. Apparently it was the decision of the staff at the Mint to place it on the occupation coins, and it had nothing to do with Quisling.

The coins issued by the government-in-exile were never put into circulation, and from 1946 they were sold to collectors.

http://www.samlerforum.no/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=14649


Offline Thulium

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2016, 07:30:52 PM »
Apparently St Olav's mark (or "award" ?), which we see on the occupation coins, is a national symbol, even though it is Christian in origin. So, just as atheists in Britain also sing "God save the Queen" or celebrate St George's day, the symbol is not reserved for Christians alone.

The Olav symbol can also be seen on other Norwegian coins, including the 1 krone of 1908 to 1917 and 1925 to 1951. Apparently it was the decision of the staff at the Mint to place it on the occupation coins, and it had nothing to do with Quisling.

The coins issued by the government-in-exile were never put into circulation, and from 1946 they were sold to collectors.

http://www.samlerforum.no/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=14649
Well done asking samlerforum--I see that now in my own collection. I missed that--I haven't been paying attention.  :P

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2016, 07:45:12 PM »
One of the responses to <k>'s question on Samlerforum gave this Wiki link to Olavskorset.

Interestingly, given the information <k> already translated that it was Myntverket's workers who decided this design and not Quisling or the Germans, we may be back at the hypothesis about subversive imagery. Towards the end of that article is a link to Krigskorset, an award for valour founded in 1941 by the king's government in exile, not Quisling's government. Not only was the symbol already associated with the Church of Norway, which was openly hostile to the NS regime, but it seems also that it had been explicitly adopted by the regime's direct opponents in London. And, of course, there is the apparent resemblance to the H7 monogram which is reinforced by how it is used on the coin.

Google Translate hasn't done a bad job btw. Sometimes you get complete gobbledygook.

Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2016, 08:31:17 PM »
Interestingly, given the information <k> already translated that it was Myntverket's workers who decided this design and not Quisling or the Germans, we may be back at the hypothesis about subversive imagery. Towards the end of that article is a link to Krigskorset, an award for valour founded in 1941 by the king's government in exile, not Quisling's government. Not only was the symbol already associated with the Church of Norway, which was openly hostile to the NS regime, but it seems also that it had been explicitly adopted by the regime's direct opponents in London.

That may or may not have been coincidence. Also, was the coin design decided in 1940, before the coins of 1941 were minted? Since the symbol was around on those old coins, it may have already been in the general consciousness. So, maybe the subversive idea is not correct, but I could be wrong.

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2016, 09:09:36 PM »
In 1942, the Norwegian government-in-exile, which was based in London, issued three coins in nickel-brass. Their pre-war counterparts were made of copper-nickel. Does anybody know the story behind them?

Images of courtesy of Heritage Auctions.

Just to fill inn jornkris answer on Samlerforum:The 1942- London coins where struck as a cash- supply for an allied expeditionforce, in case the war in Norway would have been ended with a military invasion from the west. As we know, this did not happen , so most coins where sold back to the Royal Mint after the war. About 6000 sets where taken to Norway . Until 1970 the coins where available at 1 krone per set ( 85 øre for the coins at face value plus 15 øre for the bag they came in ). Then the sale was stopped. It is believed that the remaining sets are still in the bank vaults.

The alloy used for the 1942- London øre is identical to that of the English base metall 3d. The alloy was perhaps chosen as it would have made the coins Clary distinguishable from the bronze 1,2, and 5 øre. Silver was truly never an option due to wartime rationing and to the fact that silvercons had ceased i Norway in 1920.

A fascinating piece of warhistory, but the price is heavily over the top.



Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2016, 09:15:23 PM »
Thanks for the info, Mycoins.

About 6000 sets where taken to Norway .

That was only after the war, then.

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2016, 09:29:03 PM »
That may or may not have been coincidence. Also, was the coin design decided in 1940, before the coins of 1941 were minted? Since the symbol was around on those old coins, it may have already been in the general consciousness. So, maybe the subversive idea is not correct, but I could be wrong.
I do not know the date when the decision for the striking of the iron- and zinc- coins was made, I am afraid,but according to Norwegian numismatist Bjørn Rønning it became clear to the Norwegian administration that the prewar coinage could not be continued as the metall allowences for civil use where to sparse. When in 1941 the German high command in Norway demanded the prewartime coins to be withdrawn ,the production of the replacementcoins started. Funny, the Germans gave detailed instructions in regard to the alloy of the zinc- coins, but they did not mention the ironcoins at all. Perhaps the Mint at Kongsberg just did what they had been doing in WWI without needing instructions.

The germans also gave instructions for the design of the replacement coins. Anyroyal symbol was banned , but instead symbols reflecting Norwegian history and commerce where allowes,hence the use of the cross of St. Olav and the image of a viking ship for a proposed 1- krone coin.

Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2016, 09:31:16 PM »
Thanks.  :)  Are you Norwegian yourself?

Are there any images of these proposed coin designs?

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2016, 09:36:53 PM »
Thanks for the info, Mycoins.

That was only after the war, then.

Sorry,I have to correct the figures:

Struck in 1942
10 Øre 6.000.000, 25 Øre 2.400.000, 50 Øre 2.600.000

Delivered to Norway in 1946
10 Øre 20.000, 25 Øre 30.000, 50 Øre 15.000
The coins remaining at the Royal Mint where melted down in 1953 and used for the minting of English 3d

Remelted in Norway in 1947:
10 Øre 10.003 , 25 Øre 9794, 50 Øre 4796

Meaning there are still approximately 10.000 sets left.

All figures according to Rønning and jornkris coinbook.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 09:20:40 PM by Mycoins »

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2016, 09:38:49 PM »
Thanks.  :)  Are you Norwegian yourself?

Are there any images of these proposed coin designs?

Yes , I am and yes, there are. Iwill post a scan of the 1- krone.

Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2016, 10:04:21 PM »
Thank you, Mycoins. This is proving to be very interesting. One of my special interests is unadopted designs. I wonder if there any other such designs from Scandinavia? There are unadopted wartime designs / sketches from Vichy France, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Ustashe Croatia and the National Legionary State of Romania. Going off-topic here, how about Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Bohemia and Moravia, Poland, Serbia, etc. ?

Not only that, but jornkris, who replied to me on the Norwegian forum, is a numismatic writer.  8)

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2016, 09:26:40 PM »
A sketch of the proposed 1 - krone- replacement-coin. Ragnvald Støren was the mint- official who designed the coins.

Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2016, 09:38:37 AM »
Wonderful, thank you, Mycoins. I never knew about this proposed design. You can post images of up to 128KB here, so if you ever have the time to do the same scan but twice as big, so we can see a bit more detail.  ;)   But yes, that is marvellous.  That's made my day. A lot of propaganda posters at the time showed the Norwegians looking back to their warlike forebears, the Vikings, so this design would not have upset the Nazis.

That's the good thing about an international forum like this: you are liable to find out about all sorts of things that you never knew about before.  :)

Below you see the kind of "atavism" regarding Vikings in the propaganda.

Offline Mycoins

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2016, 11:31:07 AM »
I finally got around to scan the image of the 1 krone. I hope the quality is better.


Online <k>

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Re: Norway, World War 2, government-in-exile coinage
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2016, 02:07:39 PM »
I finally got around to scan the image of the 1 krone. I hope the quality is better.

Yes, the quality is better, but it's very small. I guess it's a problem with scanning folded pages. But thank you, because we can see exactly what was portrayed. It's not a hugely detailed sketch anyway, so we can see all the details that are there. I'm very pleased that it is on this topic, so that the world can see that such a proposal existed.   8)