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Author Topic: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"  (Read 416 times)

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Offline eurocoin

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Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« on: August 02, 2016, 10:30:07 PM »
Parent topic:  'Coins' issued by ISIL


The parent topic (above) gives an overview of the pieces that were issued by ISIL. Please post any comments, questions or corrections here.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 07:57:24 PM by eurocoin »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 10:52:23 PM »
The 2014 issues from Kelantan you refer to are fantasies, not coins. If they would have been coins, they would have been illegal under Malaysian law. The local government cannot change that. The pieces were produced and offered by a company that makes tourist souvenirs.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 11:03:23 PM »
The 2014 issues from Kelantan you refer to are fantasies, not coins. If they would have been coins, they would have been illegal under Malaysian law. The local government cannot change that. The pieces were produced and offered by a company that makes tourist souvenirs.

You are right indeed, for some time however the provincial government of Kelantan did accept them as means of payment (for example for zakat), even although the central government in Kuala Lumpur wasn't happy with it at all. The same company had involvement in the re-introduction of the Dinar in Afghanistan, that attempt was less successful than the attempt in Malaysia.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 12:13:49 AM »
So, given the nature of this conflict, it is difficult to know what is a fantasy and what is not, and which of the illustrated pieces are actually circulating as money.

I'm surprised that the pieces feature any pictorial designs at all. I imagined that the creatures that run this outfit would adopted the strictest criteria possible - even though it is said by survivors that they do not follow the "religious" rules that they inflict on others. After all, Saudi Arabia hasn't allowed any pictorial designs on its coins, though I understand that is about to change soon. Certainly they do not like humans or animals to be depicted on coins.

Offline EWC

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 12:05:37 PM »
"The idea to reintroduce the silver dirham and gold dinar is not new, in 2010 Muslims in Kelantan in Malaysia also tried to re-introduce that currency."

I believe a (the only?) gold "coin" struck for circulation in the 1970's was a put out by the Karen Rebels, on the Burmese border.  The authority on Burmese coins, Michael Robinson told me that anyhow he showed me one. 

Some may remember Michael also reprinted several books on Medieval European copper coins.  Has anyone heard from Michael in recent times?  Last time I spoke to him he had sadly decided to abandon numismatics to focus his attention on declining academic standards in the UK instead.  (As I recall he blamed it on government control of the exam system).

Rob

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 12:55:29 PM »
I believe a (the only?) gold "coin" struck for circulation in the 1970's was put out by the Karen Rebels, on the Burmese border.  The authority on Burmese coins, Michael Robinson told me that anyhow he showed me one. 

Rob

How about these:

Burma - gold mu coins, 1970-1.

?

Offline EWC

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 01:26:25 PM »
As I said before - its long ago - but  my recollection is that they were nothing at all like that - more like crude pellets of pure gold with minor punchmarks of some kind

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 08:43:55 AM »
So, given the nature of this conflict, it is difficult to know what is a fantasy and what is not, and which of the illustrated pieces are actually circulating as money.

In a situation where a normal person would want to leave and is unsure of property rights and expects prices and scarcity to rise, that person would keep and hide any piece of silver or gold it would receive and certainly not spend it again. It is probably quite safe to assume that, in the unlikely event that they ever circulated, it was between the few crazies at the top of the political structure who wanted to prove things to themselves.

Moreover, the mere possession of these pieces would have been unlawful, hazardous and/or morally highly questionable anywhere outside the oppressed territories. That alone would make fantasies unlikely. Fantasies need a market.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 09:46:20 AM »
That alone would make fantasies unlikely. Fantasies need a market.

In fact it is rather easy to obtain the first series and there are a lot of online shops where they are being sold.
Also on other coin forums there are quite a few members who have these pieces.
I believe the difference I wrote about here and the fact that there are advertisements from China where
they are being offered in bulk as well as the many variants that exist, prove that there exist fantasy imitations
and I am sure that there are many more fantasies than the real 'coins' issued by ISIL.

I don't know what to consider the pieces that were really issued by ISIL which are most likely the 1 and 5 dinar coins of the first series and possibly also the second series. Are they coins, tokens, fantasies or...

Offline Bimat

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2016, 03:35:15 PM »
I don't know about other countries, but if I order these so called coins by mail and by any chance, if customs notice them, then I'll be in HUGE trouble for sure! ::)

Aditya
Caution. The low-hanging fruits are still there maybe for a reason.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 08:01:53 PM »
2 new silver pieces of the second series have now been added.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on: "Coins issued by ISIL"
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2017, 02:08:31 PM »
ISIL has blown up several ancient mosques, so why would they depict 2 mosques which are similar to the ones they have blown up on the 5 Dirhams and 10 Dirhams coins of the first series?..

Furthermore despite the kind help of a member of a Belgian coins forum the meaning of the calligraphic texts on the obverses of some of the 'coins' of the second series remains unknown.