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Author Topic: Siberia  (Read 915 times)

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Offline Siberian Man

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Siberia
« on: September 09, 2016, 05:03:54 PM »
Siberia is a great land and the part of Russia since the end of XVI century. It is a giant and boundless and rather wild area in nothern Asia. Besides - it is my homeland. I was born here, I lives here and (I hope) I will die here many years after.
I want to share my small set of an old Siberian coins which were released at the second half of XVIII century.

Offline Siberian Man

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 05:05:29 PM »
Denga (1/2 kopek) 1775, copper.

Offline Siberian Man

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 05:06:54 PM »
One kopek 1768, copper. This coin was find in the ground.

Offline Siberian Man

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 05:08:00 PM »
And the last one.
Two kopeks 1769, copper.

Offline Siberian Man

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 05:08:27 PM »
That is all.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 09:02:02 PM »
Thank you Siberian. In European history, Sweden and Siberia both provided enormous amounts of copper to the world and both had the same problem: they had such a high production of copper that if they would have tried to sell it on world markets, they would have depressed the world market copper price. Both came up with the same solution: sell as much as possible in their own country. In Sweden, plate money was coined: large copper plates, stamped with a value on four corners and the centre. In Russia, Siberian copper was touted as the best quality. Coining Siberian copper was more difficult for a technical reason: Siberian copper contains traces of gold and silver. This problem was solved by making Siberian coins somewhat lighter.

More details here.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline natko

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 08:20:10 PM »
That's a nice parallel, Peter, I always though like that, too. These coins are utterly interesting, so much I even went for them although my area of collecting usually starts with 19th century.

It was expensive to transfer copper to other mints in Russia and back to Siberia again so mint opened in Suzun, 150km south of Novosibirsk(The latter didn't even exist in 18th century BTW). For the convenience and reasons Peter mentioned, Siberia used a different monetary system for a while, although of course, rouble was accepted.

Another peculiarity is that KM is not actually a true mint mark. Rather it denotes the copper came from Kolyvan mines - it stands for Колыванская Mедь (Kolyvan copper), which was fully written on the edge of bigger coins in early 1760s (no KM letters on these pieces). Interesting to notice how the copper had to travel from that mining town over 200km south, to Suzun, which was, I presume, possible only in the summertime through Ob river. When Siberian monetary system was abolished and Suzun mint started to mint regular royal copper coins in 1781, they was also marked with KM, which finally changed to CM (Suzun Mint) only in the 1830s.

I also attached a photo of a piece from my collection, the biggest Russian copper coin, a 10 kopek piece, which weights whooping 67 grams.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 09:40:20 PM »
Didn't realise mining and minting were still 200 km apart. Sounds wasteful, unless there was no energy for melting available at the mines. Indeed, water transport is very efficient for coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 01:38:07 AM »
What a great thread, I didn't know there was a mint in 18th century Siberia. Was there no coinage before the Russians arrived, maybe of the Khanate of Sibir?
-- Paul

Offline Gusev

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 12:49:49 PM »
Was there no coinage before the Russians arrived, maybe of the Khanate of Sibir?
-- Paul

Ermak conquered Siberia in the late 16th century.
Prior to that, in Siberia ruled by the descendants of the Golden Horde.
No information about the coin minting by the Mongols in Siberia.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Siberian Man

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 11:39:04 AM »
Siberia.
Polushka (1/4 kopek) 1778, copper, weight - 1,6 g., size - 18 mm, thickness - 1 mm. Suzun Mint. Ruler: Catherine II the Great (1762-1796). Coins of this type were released at 1764, 1767-79.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 03:36:52 PM »
Ermak conquered Siberia in the late 16th century.
Prior to that, in Siberia ruled by the descendants of the Golden Horde.
No information about the coin minting by the Mongols in Siberia.

The Mongols weren't big minters, being nomads who counted their wealth by their cattle. I do remember seeing silver bars, but the only geographical markings I have seen indicated Kiev. What I call my memory also says the tribes along the big rivers imitated Moscow wire money, but I am not sure how far North that happened.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 01:30:30 PM »
....... the tribes along the big rivers imitated Moscow wire money, but I am not sure how far North that happened.

Peter

In Siberia at that time there was a natural exchange, IMHO.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Siberia
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 07:33:25 PM »
......the only geographical markings I have seen indicated Kiev.

Peter

Coins of the Kiev principality of the 10th century see WoC
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=39662.new#new
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.