1883 Great Britain 4p

Started by Prosit, August 30, 2016, 07:49:34 PM

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Prosit

I got this coin today. It is an 1883 4 pence coin from Great Britain.

Too bad it has a scuff on the front but it is good enough for me.
This is only the second 4 pence I have. The other is an 1849.

I think it is an interesting denomination.

Dale

andyg

This one has a mintage of just 5096, as by the time it was issued the 4d had ceased to become a useful denomination and was only used as Maundy.  The currency 4d (issued until the 1850's apart from a lone issue in 1888 for British Guyana) had the Britannia design.
The Maundy series are underappreciated for such small issues - true more have survived in higher grades (such as this one) but they are still a nice addition to any collection.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Prosit

Here is some information from Wikipedia.

In 1843, The Illustrated London News described a Maundy ceremony:

On the day alluded to a certain number of poor men and women, of each the exact number of our sovereign's age, attends divine worship in the Royal Chapel, Whitehall in the morning and afternoon. Bread, meat and fish is distributed to them in large wooden bowls, and a procession formed of the royal almoner or sub-almoner, with other officers, who are decorated with white scarfs and sashes, and each carrying a bouquet of flowers; one of the officers supports a large gold dish or salver, on which are placed small red and white leather bags, the red containing a sovereign, the white the pieces ... termed Maundy Money.

One of each of these bags is given to the persons selected to receive the royal bounty; they have likewise given to them cloth, linen, shoes &c., as well as a small maple cup, out of which previous to the termination of the ceremony they drink the Queen's health ... These small pieces are, by an order of Government declared current coins of the realm, therefore no one dare refuse to take them if offered in payment, still they are not in reality intended for that purpose.

Interesting.


Dale

FosseWay

My grandmother received the Royal Maundy in 1986 and the ceremony was much the same. When she died, she left the coins and all the associated paperwork, leather bags etc. to me, so I have six complete sets from that year (in which the Queen was 60, so each recipient got 60 pence; one set is 4+3+2+1=10 pence).

And the coins are still theoretically spendable as legal tender, as the 1843 article points out, though nowadays for decimal pence. In 1971 the face value of all Maundy money was increased by 2.4 times by law - including existing issues. Of course, the intrinsic and collector value of such pieces is way more than 2.4 times the original face value so it makes no practical difference, but it is quite unusual for coins to have their face value revalued upwards without some kind of countermark.

Prosit

Does anyone know of a link to a picture of a "maple cup" somewhere in a museum?
I am curious as to what they looked like.

Dale


Quote from: Prosit on August 30, 2016, 10:17:03 PM
.......as well as a small maple cup, out of which previous to the termination of the ceremony they drink the Queen's health ...

FosseWay

Quote from: Prosit on September 05, 2016, 03:06:19 AM
Does anyone know of a link to a picture of a "maple cup" somewhere in a museum?
I am curious as to what they looked like.

Dale

If you search Google on "maple cup royal maundy" you get a load of hits rehashing precisely the text you quote, apart from one, which (including bizarre OCR errors) reads:

Quote from: The Saturday Magazine (1841)Wc'propose now to notice several celebrations of the Maundy, beginning with the ... of her Majesty's Maundy donations :— The Queen's royal alms were distributed on ... given away in large wooden bowls; t e drinking-cup was made of maple.

I don't think it's a type of cup; rather, just a fairly standard chalice or similar that happens to be made of maple. If it was a fundamental part of the ceremony I'd expect more references to it in modern descriptions of Maundy services.

Prosit

I though sure there would be museums with displays of all the items. Cup, bowl chalice whatever.
One of my " far more hobbies than any sane person should have" is woodworking and I was just curious as to what it might have looked like over time.

Dale



Quote from: FosseWay on September 06, 2016, 06:50:41 PM
If you search Google on "maple cup royal maundy" you get a load of hits rehashing precisely the text you quote, apart from one, which (including bizarre OCR errors) reads:

I don't think it's a type of cup; rather, just a fairly standard chalice or similar that happens to be made of maple. If it was a fundamental part of the ceremony I'd expect more references to it in modern descriptions of Maundy services.

Prosit