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Bread tokens from Turkey

Started by blmelon, August 18, 2016, 10:00:57 PM

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blmelon

These two bread tokens was used in Eskisehir (a province in Turkey) by 1930s.."1 bread" and "2 breads" tokens were produced by Ondogan Bread Factory with a mythological sacred animal figure..

Figleaf

Very interesting, bimelon. How were they used? Tokens for free bread for the poor? Pre-paid delivery? Co-op?

I guess ES stands for Eskisehir. What is SA.CA.A?

I read the dates as 1935 and 1936 respectively ...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

blmelon

Thanks Peter, they were used for charity, rich people paid for 20-30 or maybe 50 breads and in return these tokens were distributed to poor people, and they used these tokens for buying free breads..Actually I read two dates as 1936..ES.SA.CA.A is an abbreviation for commercial name of bread factory..

blmelon

These two bread tokens were used by the same bread factory in the forthcoming years (maybe 50s, 60s)..

Figleaf

I think SA.CA could be for sanayi ├žaba ahali (industry community endeavour) - excuse my grammar.

On the later tokens, EKMEK is bread and I guess the O is for Ondogan. Any idea what H and M stand for?

Fr. Koll. St. is only one letter away from Fraternal Collective Society. Is it Turkish? There's an l too many for Kolektif...

The 6 has two rounded corners on the left. The 5 has one sharp and one rounded corner on the left.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

malj1

Quote from: blmelon on August 18, 2016, 10:00:57 PM
...a mythological sacred animal figure..

It looks like a fox - especially in the second piece showing the brush more clearly.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

malj1

Here is a scan from the catalogue showing others with MHO

Followed by two other similar but reading FAON
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

blmelon

Peter and Malcolm, you are very careful collectioners, I appreciate it   :o

SA.CA.A= SA could be sanayi/industry; CA could be TiCAri/trading and A. could be Anonim/shares company 

OHM= O is certainly Ondoğan but I dont know what is the meaning of H and M

Fr. Koll. St. = Fr. means Fırın/Bakery, Koll. means Kollektif/Collective, St. means Şirketi/Company

And I saw many other examples of these tokens, all of them I read the dates as 1936, I think there is a misprint of mine

There is a flower countermark in the aluminium ones, but I really dont know the meaning of them,

thank you for your countributions


Figleaf

Thank you for the translations. Yes, Bimelon, Malcolm and I are both token collectors and yet we differ. Malcolm has fantastic documentation. He can find the issuer of many puzzling tokens and he can often find out how they were used. My approach is from the financial and political side: why were they issued and how were they used? To me, the key word is kollektif, but anonim is important also. Let me explain.

From around 1870 to 1940, a struggle took place in many European countries. Socialism was claiming a political place for the poor. This brought socialism in direct conflict of interest with the Christian church, which also claimed to take care of the poor and sick. In theory, people would be asked to give money to the church, sometimes in boxes, one of which would be earmarked "for the poor". The church would dole out help to the poor such as medical care, alms and bread. Many church tokens prove that this was indeed done. However, the church's record on help for the poor was bad. Their leaders lived in luxury, though they had given a vow of poverty, the medical care was so bad that many of the hospitals for the poor served as dying house, the alms were scarce and small and the bread was of bad quality.

Socialism's approach was what we would call today "self-help". They would organise the poor in co-operatives that would shut out middlemen (disintermediation) for lower prices and provide support for the poor with free bread and milk. Many co-op tokens attest to the success of this approach. Big shops and shop chains reacted with loyalty discount programs, also with tokens.

The word kollektif tells me that in 1936, socialism was working for the poor in Turkey. As you know, alms giving is important in Islam also, but the potential conflict between religion and politics may have been softened, if not avoided by the strictly secular character of the Turkish government. The word anonim tells me Turkey had an enterprise-friendly legal structure in place that could be used to create legal bodies, which must have been the result of rigorous legal reforms of earlier law systems.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Figleaf

#9
The flower mark is likely to be either a cancellation or a change in the price of bread. The first token in Malcolm's documentation says that the price of bread is 24 kurus.

As for SEKF, I would hazard that the letter stand for Sanayi Ekmek (or Eskisehir) Kollektif and Firin. The name Ondoğan is not mentioned, but the style of the value side connects it to Ondoğan.

FAON would then be Firin Anonim Ondoğan, leaving the N un-explained and without mention of the collective character. I am now wondering if OHM could include Mili or Halka (public), meaning that the co-op had been nationalised...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

blmelon

Peter,

Seller I bought these tokens from told me that he have some documents and invoices related to Ondoğan Bread Bakery
Two or three weeks later I will visit him and buy all of the documents about the bakery..maybe these documents offer an insight into this subject

malj1

Yes it is always important to buy any related documents when they are for sale together in such circumstances.

So much information is lost when these groups are separated.

The flower mark is no doubt the counter-mark referred to in the catalogue listing TK-1272 above; although the image is unclear.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

blmelon

I talked to my token collector friend living in Eskişehir, he knows the owner of Ondoğan Bread Bacery (by the way this bakery was closed three or four years ago). According to his comments,

not HMO---OHM (Ondoğan Hamurlu Mamulleri)=Ondoğan Bakery Products
not FAON or AFON ---ONFA(Ondoğan Fabrikası)=Ondoğan Factory

It make sense

Figleaf

Great! Very satisfactory solution. Please convey our thanks to your friend.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

blmelon