Author Topic: How many coins / countries  (Read 4407 times)

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Offline nomadbird

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How many coins / countries
« on: July 03, 2016, 01:12:51 PM »
Hi All
 
how many coins do you have ?  territorial wise how many countries ?

Thx
Thx
Nomadbird

Offline FosseWay

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2016, 01:26:21 PM »
What constitutes a "country" is open to interpretation.

I currently have coins and/or tokens from 258 issuing territories. I count dependent territories with their own coins that are distinct from the controlling country's as separate entities (so Guernsey, Jersey etc. are separate from the UK, Hong Kong is separate from China and Spitsbergen is separate from both Norway and Russia). On the other hand, I have some catch-all "countries" called German States, Austrian States, Italian States and Indian States which only count for four of the above 258 but which have around 50 sub-issuers between them. Where there is some degree of continuity between politically very different entities covering a similar geographical area I tend also to combine them, so the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation are all the same "country" in my list. Same with the various manifestations of Germany since 1871, except for the DDR, which is separate, and same with pan-India issues, covering EIC, British imperial and Republic issues.

As to number of coins - tens of thousands. But that is misleading because I have a lot of junk that I don't particularly want (duplicates that I have acquired in job lots).

Offline nomadbird

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2016, 01:40:04 PM »
Hi thanks for the reply.   my  question should have been how many unique geography/coins.  Whatever you say is right. If considering India, it has been in the influence of dutch, french,portugese, english, mughal etc. And too many states and coins. in the numismatics worls, is there any agreed number of territories?  If not, should that be made a standard?!
Thx
Nomadbird

Offline FosseWay

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2016, 02:03:01 PM »
n the numismatics worls, is there any agreed number of territories?

No!  ;D

I guess it would be relatively easy to come up with a current list of coin-issuing territories, using UN membership as a starting point and then adding dependent/disputed territories that clearly issue their own coins that are notably different from the "mother" country. Territories with disputed status wouldn't matter - what would matter would be whether they issue coins for circulation. So the Channel Islands (no dispute at all) would count; the Falkland Islands (disputed but accepted by international law) would count; Transdnistria (disputed by most other countries) would count; but Belarus (not disputed, but no coins for circulation) and Palestine (disputed, and no coins) would not.

What would be more tricky would be separating supposed circulation issues from fantasies/issues that in practice only ever turn up in people's collections.

So much for current coin issuers. If you want to include previous ones, it is impossible to come to a definitive number or list that everyone would agree with. Borders have come and gone, coins have come and gone. I don't really see a need to make a definitive judgement on this either - any collector can come to their own decisions, just as I have in my own inconsistent way above.

Offline dheer

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2016, 02:42:35 PM »
Hi All
 
how many coins do you have ?  territorial wise how many countries ?

Thx

There is nothing called a country.... so if you are looking for UN countries then around 178 or 180 ....

In coin collecting there is a theme... one coin one issuing authority... the issuing authority is vaguely defined... some count rulers / kings as different authority, some treat dynasty as authority... some count change in decimal coinage, major devaluation as events...

So there is no such list... Abhaya has a list you can start off with.. there are other who have started with SCWC list of countries.
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Offline Figleaf

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2016, 03:27:13 PM »
One alternative would be to compile a list of languages on coins. There is of course the problem of dialects and accents, but at least that ought to change the spelling. You may be surprised how many languages you can find on coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline nomadbird

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 03:28:36 PM »
There is nothing called a country....

A country is : a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.   So UN definition considers this. 

As of now i tried en.numista.com and their coutry, teritory list is beyound 350+
Thx
Nomadbird

Offline Figleaf

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 03:42:00 PM »
According to international law, a country needs:
  • A fixed territory. Not a farm, oil drilling platform apartment or anchored ship.
  • A sedentary population. Not a bunch of nomads, land owners, functionaries or workers stationed on a temporary basis.
  • Factual sovereign power. Not a claim only.
This would exclude quite a few coin-issuing entities, from Taiwan (non-recognised) via American Indian tribes (insufficient sovereignty), Lundy (no factual power) and the sovereign Maltese order (no territory) to the Vatican (no sedentary population). A pretty easy way to go is start from KM or Schön and make corrections according to your taste.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 03:46:59 PM »
but Belarus (not disputed, but no coins for circulation) and Palestine (disputed, and no coins) would not.

Sorry, Fosseway.
You just became wrong by only a few days.
Belarus issued circulation coins on 1st July.

Offline bacchus

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 03:49:32 PM »
I use the term issuing authority to classify the coins I have in my collection.  For example coins issued by the Roman Province of Thrace are different from Roman Imperial as they were issued under different authorities even though technically Thrace was part of the Roman Empire.   Coins issued for the various Chinese Provinces I still classify under China and I even keep all the various Empires under China even though the argument could be made for differentiating them.  I classify Ming Rebels differently  though because they were not not issued by the central governing state.  It's one of those questions that you just need to do whatever suits you as there's no right answer.

I must have about 700 such issuing authorities or so - and over 10,000 different types of coins - I don't collect by date.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 04:01:39 PM »
Even "authority" is subject to doubt. I can think of coins issued by shipwreck survivors, plantation owners, claimants to the throne, usurpers, merchants and companies. None of them had the legal authority to issue coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2016, 05:03:10 PM »
I use the term issuing authority to classify the coins I have in my collection.  For example coins issued by the Roman Province of Thrace are different from Roman Imperial as they were issued under different authorities even though technically Thrace was part of the Roman Empire.   Coins issued for the various Chinese Provinces I still classify under China and I even keep all the various Empires under China even though the argument could be made for differentiating them.  I classify Ming Rebels differently  though because they were not not issued by the central governing state.  It's one of those questions that you just need to do whatever suits you as there's no right answer.

I must have about 700 such issuing authorities or so - and over 10,000 different types of coins - I don't collect by date.

In effect I have a similar system, but it is also dependent on how many coins I have from a given location. I have always had completely separate files for each British overseas territory/Crown dependency that issues coins, because I've always had plenty of coins from these. With the German and Indian States I've got enough to warrant separating them from unified German or Indian issues but not enough per state to bother creating separate files for each state. On the other hand I've only got three or four coins from French states in total, so I've just added them to the beginning of France, before the predecimal regal issues. China I have just one file for, divided into Empire, Republic and People's Republic. I don't have enough provincial issues to warrant separating them all off.

I am up to 12,690 types (not differentiated by date, though I do also collect by date) whereof around 700 are banknotes and probably 2,000-2,500 are tokens. Type 12690, added a couple of days ago, is shown below  :)

Offline FosseWay

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2016, 05:10:24 PM »
Even "authority" is subject to doubt. I can think of coins issued by shipwreck survivors, plantation owners, claimants to the throne, usurpers, merchants and companies. None of them had the legal authority to issue coins.

Peter

If they gave themselves the authority to issue coins and then did so, and, crucially, used them as a means of payment, then by definition they are issued under an authority. That some other polity questioned the authority is neither here nor there. If you have to have unanimous agreement that a given state is legitimate and that the coins it produces are legitimate, that would narrow the field hugely. The issues of the Falkland Islands would be invalid, because at least one country rejects the legitimacy of the islands' government and its authority to issue coins. The issues of Nazi Germany and the DDR would also be invalid given those polities' modern status as Unrechtsstaat (not sure of the best English term to convey that - illegitimate state?).

Offline dheer

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Re: how many coins / countries
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2016, 06:24:25 PM »
A country is : a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.   So UN definition considers this. 

As of now i tried en.numista.com and their coutry, teritory list is beyound 350+

There is more to this... one would find quite a few that don't fit the definition...
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Offline dheer

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Re: How many coins / countries
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2016, 03:25:48 AM »
Then there are tons of coins issued during Spanish civil war... by municipality... presumably the took the authority to themselves...

So my point is its not cut and dry... I don't think the community would agree on a common list...
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies