Author Topic: Lowest denominations  (Read 4892 times)

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Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2016, 08:06:29 PM »
Do you know who designed either coin Peter? Was it the same person?

Online Figleaf

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2016, 09:12:15 PM »
AFAIK, both coins were designed by an anonymous design team at the royal mint. <k> may know more/better.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2016, 02:01:48 AM »
This has become more difficult than I originally envisaged. For example, if I post the following Swedish coins, they both seem to fit the bill. One decimal and one pre-decimal. Except there were fractions of ore minted in the 18th century so the 1 ore is not the smallest.

So I have decided that I need to set parameters for this collection. Fairly straightforward I think: I will endeavour to collect the smallest denomination for each country as listed in Krause for the year 1900. Each coin does not have to be from 1900, just the same as the smallest coin minted in that year.

That might stop me scratching my head quite so much. :)

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2016, 09:09:49 PM »
It doesn't apply if you're applying the "1900 rule", but there was a decimal half-öre in Sweden between 1855 and 1873.

Offline <k>

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2016, 11:08:33 PM »
AFAIK, both coins were designed by an anonymous design team at the royal mint. <k> may know more/better.

Peter

WYON, LEONARD CHARLES (1826 – 20 AUG 1891)

Leonard Charles Wyon, eldest son of William Wyon, was born in one of the houses in the British Royal Mint compound, London. He was educated at Merchant Taylors School, which was then in Charterhouse Square in the City of London. His father taught him art and die engraving. By the age of sixteen he had already made several medals and some of his early work can be seen in the British Museum collection. In 1844 he became Second Engraver at the British Royal Mint. At the age of twenty-four he succeeded his father with the title of Modeler and Engraver in 1851.

In 1860 Parliament passed an Act to change the composition of the copper penny, half penny and farthing to bronze. Leonard was invited to prepare designs for the new composition coins. Queen Victoria granted Leonard several sittings for her coinage portrait. Leonard engraved the dies for the gold and silver coinage struck for the Jubilee of Queen Victoria in 1887. The designs for the coins were prepared by Sir Joseph Edgar Boehm and the portrait of Queen Victoria depicts her facing left with a very small crown on the top of her head, a crown which she had made because she found the full size crown too heavy.

Designs: British Honduras O/ 25 c., 50 c. KM-4, 5. Nova Scotia O&R/ ½ c. KM-7. New Brunswick O&R/ ½ c., 1 c. KM-5,
6; O/ 5 c., 10 c., 20 c. KM-7, 8, 9. Prince Edward Island O&R/ 1 c. KM-4. Newfoundland O/ 1 c. KM-1. Also coins of many
other British Commonwealth entities and other countries, including Australia, British East Africa, British Guiana, British
Honduras, Canada, Ceylon, Colombia, Cyprus, Djibouti, Great Britain, Hong Kong, British India, British India Native States
(Alwar, Bikanir, Dwas, and Dgar), Jamaica, Jersey, Malta, Mauritius, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince
Edward Island, and Straits Settlements.

Offline <k>

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2016, 11:42:00 PM »
This one is fun to compare with a large Canadian cent. Not even the leaves of the same tree and yet...

Peter









See: Wreaths and Sprays on Coins.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2016, 12:34:07 AM »
Thanks <k>. Always nice to have a bit of extra information. :)

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2016, 12:44:14 AM »
It doesn't apply if you're applying the "1900 rule", but there was a decimal half-öre in Sweden between 1855 and 1873.

See now, that's the thing. I need to set the date parameter or I'll be looking forever. I found a 1/6 ore from 1718 whilst I was looking around.  ::)

I think I'm actually going to use 1901 because then it's the first coin listed in Krause for each country so it's easier to find. :)

Online Figleaf

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2016, 10:27:20 AM »
One of the greatest advantages of setting our own rules is that you can break them.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Bimat

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Lowest denominations
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2016, 10:32:10 AM »
One of the greatest advantages of setting our own rules is that you can break them.

Reminds me of my favorite quote:

Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.

 ;)

Aditya
Caution. The low-hanging fruits are still there maybe for a reason.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2016, 01:57:19 AM »
Today, Belgium. 1 Centime 1912, French and Dutch legends:

Online Figleaf

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2016, 11:53:06 AM »
Don't miss the signature of engraver Braemt. He made some elegant coins...

It used to be hard to explain Belgian's language problem, mostly because it's not just about language. However, the US political deadlock between Democrats and Republicans has made it easier, as the two problems are of the same character: an ingrained cultural split that revolves about nothing more than the dogma that you can't and shouldn't work with the other side. Both sides have withdrawn to their own hill, extremists exchanging meaningless insults. The middle ground has emptied. Real problems receive only scant attention and only when they are urgent.

In that sense, these coins are an admirable attempt to show both sides that - to use a cliché - there is more that unites them than there is to separate them. Those who understand the Dutch version of the coin will instantly understand the French coin and vice versa. Instead, at the time your coins were struck the two versions had already become a tradition rather than innovation and another bone of contention, where each side makes sure "its" version is produced on equal footing with the other version.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2016, 04:04:22 PM »
Are there any other countries that do this Peter?

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2016, 06:55:08 PM »
The other obvious European country that could have this problem is Switzerland, but they solved it in a completely different way.

Rather than trying to fit four official languages on the coins, they use one that is neither official nor used in daily discourse by anyone in Switzerland: Latin. You could argue that a possibly subconscious reason for why UK coins are still in Latin is similar. The disparity in number of speakers between English and the Celtic languages, plus the fact that the latter are only official in the countries of the UK where they are spoken natively, means the problem is less acute, but it is nonetheless there in the background.

Another solution is South Africa's, where there is a huge number of official languages. There they have opted to change the language(s) on any given denomination each year. For this to work, you have to be relatively certain before you start that you are going to have a series of types that will last long enough for all languages to get a fair crack at the whip (you're looking at 15-20 years in SA including time for the coins to actually be used). The community representatives concerned need also not to be so childish as to bicker about which order the coins are issued in or whether when a denomination is phased out the community whose language appeared last feels hard done by or whatever. The South Africans, at least back in the 90s, were more concerned with general freedom than such petty arguments; I'm not so sure the Belgians of either kind would see it the same way.

Offline andyg

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Re: Lowest denominations
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2016, 07:19:32 PM »
South Africa used the languages in rotation - africancoins has a chart on his website here
Each language appeared each year on one of the denominations (not sure if this is the case now since the demise of the 5 cent, but it may explain why the 50 cent has been modified to have two languages on)

Another country to alternate languages every year is Croatia....
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....