Author Topic: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark  (Read 1937 times)

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Offline redwine

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CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« on: March 08, 2016, 03:49:35 PM »
I think
MOUKVOS
CROIX DU SUD

Countermark on a 1939 French 25c piece. Now concave.
A comment on the occupation?  The cross of Lorraine being the sign of the resistance. Any thoughts.  Many thanks  ;D
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Offline saro

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 11:51:29 AM »
This is a suggestion...
The "Croix du Sud" was the name of the plane of Jean Mermoz "Latécoère 300" ( aéropostale line Dakar / Saint Louis / Rio), the plane on which he died in dec. 1936; may be "MOUKVOS" is a deformation of "MERMOZ" (in african language ? or some other ?)

I don't think that "Croix du Sud" could be linked with the Lorraine cross.
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Offline redwine

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 12:32:34 PM »
Yes, I may have assumed too much re the Southern Cross.  :-[

Perhaps it's a Touareg love token?  Or someone's doing some pseudo random counterstamping?
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Offline redwine

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 01:23:30 PM »
MOUKVOS - I've just tried Google translate.  It reckons its Portuguese for Groom or Bride and Groom  :-\
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Offline THCoins

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 03:36:06 PM »
Moukvos/Moukvoz is a Jewish family name. So a relation with WOII is not so unlikely ?

Offline Figleaf

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 07:13:43 PM »
The discussion on numismatique.com centres on the following elements:
  • Moukvos as a family name is rare to the point of non-existence in France. Moukvoz is pretty rare also, but the name does occur in the larger Paris area, so origin is probably France, but French colonial is not excluded.
  • There seems to be agreement on the function of "jeton de consigne". The term covers tokens given by those taking care of stuff, like cloakroom tokens (less likely, as they would probably be numbered) and tokens that accompany packaging, so that they can only be returned to those who gave them out, like market tokens.
  • Croix du Sud occurs often as the name of an enterprise, especially in the South of France. One member knows such an enterprise that turned old coins into tokens. However, that would not explain the relatively primitive counterpunches, that were used letter by letter, or the name Moukvos.
  • Dating is of course after 1939, likely after 1945, when the host coin had become worthless.
So, for the moment, the most likely constellation seems to be a post-war French market token for a company called "Croix du Sud", the owner of which was called Moukvoz (or at least that's how the family calls itself now.)

Peter
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Offline THCoins

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 10:01:48 PM »
A reference to a war-time Moukvos family here.

Offline redwine

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 09:50:24 AM »
Thanks guys  ;D
From all the countermarked pieces I've seen I don't remember a worded French countermark on a French coin.  This is just not done.  French countermark on a French token, yes.
The notable exceptions being anything 'satirique,'  ie SEDAN and other words/images on Napoleon III coinage; 25c Patey with beware the Germans etc......
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Offline redwine

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Re: CROIX DU SUD / MOUKVOS countermark
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 11:04:36 AM »
I forgot the UN Decime countermark  :-[
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