Author Topic: Angola 40 reis 1757  (Read 4139 times)

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Offline mrbadexample

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Angola 40 reis 1757
« on: February 22, 2016, 01:15:32 AM »
Hi all,

Can anyone tell me more about this coin please? I understand it's Brazilian Angolan reis (40?) but apart from that I don't know much more. It seems that many of these are countermarked, although this one is not. ĝ40mm, 29.1g. Not sure of the metal, maybe copper? Legend reads IOSEPHUS I D G REX P ET D GUINEĈ, reverse CIRCVMIT ORBEM PECVNIA TOTVM

Any information at all would be appreciated, e.g. denomination, mintage, rarity, value, when it was minted (can I assume 1757?) and legend translation.

Many thanks,
MBE
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:34:02 PM by mrbadexample »

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Brazil Reis 1757
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 03:12:13 PM »
 Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is this Angolan?  :-\

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Brazil Reis 1757
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 07:04:39 PM »
It could well be Angolan. Angola KM 9 is not illustrated (in my edition) but the description fits and the date 1757 is listed. Brazil KM 184.1 is also not illustrated and also fits the description, but 1757 is not listed.

That is not to say that Brazil 1757 exists and it's just missing in (my) KM - stranger things have happened.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Brazil Reis 1757
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 09:10:05 PM »
This link http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces53250.html is to a KM 9 with photo, and it's the same as mine. So does this now belong in the Angolan section or the Portuguese? I'd still like to know a bit more about it if anyone can help.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Brazil Reis 1757
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 09:33:18 PM »
In terms of mintage figures I don't think I can tell you anything you haven't already found out from KM / Numismaster. I think we can safely assume it was minted in 1757 or a few years thereafter if a frozen date was used.

As to the legends:

IOSEPHUS I D G REX P ET D GUINEĈ is presumably in full IOSEPHUS I DEI GRATIA REX PORTUGALIAE ET DUX GUINEAE, or Joseph I by the grace of God king of Portugal and duke of Guinea

CIRCVMIT ORBEM PECVNIA TOTVM = not quite "money makes the world go round", but rather "Money (or wealth) goes round the whole world" - an astonishingly modern slogan for an 18th century coin, at a time when most coin inscriptions didn't do much more than list the monarch's title, glorify said monarch, glorify God or ask God to do something nasty to one's enemies. This slogan on the other hand would have been equally at home in Thatcher's Britain.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Brazil Reis 1757
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 10:24:27 PM »
In terms of mintage figures I don't think I can tell you anything you haven't already found out from KM / Numismaster. I think we can safely assume it was minted in 1757 or a few years thereafter if a frozen date was used.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Krause, and Numismaster only gives the mintage of the 1753. I have to say though, I think mine's a better example than any other I've seen thus far. It has some wear, of course, and some minor edge bruises but apart from that seems to be devoid of any disfiguring marks or scratches. I think it's quite a handsome piece. :)

Thanks for translating the legends.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 10:35:08 PM »
Can you shift this to the correct board for me please FW?
Cheers, MBE

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 11:00:44 PM »
I arrived on the scene too late to contribute much. Listed by Gomes as Angola Dom José I 04.04. Two variations: with and without flowers around the date. Diameter is correct and weight within observed margins (28.25 - 29.40 mm). While everything is always possible, a frozen date seems unlikely, as new types were minted date 1762. Five years doesn't look like an indecent interval.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 10:47:38 AM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 01:04:16 AM »
Great coin! I will dream of it tonight ...  :-[

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 09:00:15 AM »
I arrived on the scene too late to contribute much. Listed by Gomes as Angola Dom José I 04.04. Two varietions: with and without flowers around the date. Diameter is correct and weight within observed margins (28.25 - 29.40 mm). While everything is always possible, a frozen date seems unlikely, as new types were minted date 1762. Five years doesn't look like an indecent interval.

Peter

Thanks Peter, does Gomes list the mintage by any chance? Are you able to approximate a value for me? Although I gave away the Tornese I last posted about, this one I like, and will be keeping I think. :)

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 09:01:30 AM »
Great coin! I will dream of it tonight ...  :-[

Glad you like it Afrasi. I should really try to take some better pictures, it's a nice piece.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 10:52:11 AM »
Gomes has no mintage, which is not too relevant anyway, since it tells you nothing about how many coins of this type or date survived and how many collectors you can contact (most will be in Portugal) want it. Typical mintage of this time is 10 to 50 thousand. "Value" depends on who you can contact if you want to sell. The market is way too shallow to form a price. Gomes (old edition) lists €20 for VF, €80 for EF. Use at your own risk.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 12:08:52 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 11:54:03 AM »
Thanks Peter. This one stays with me I think. It has some sentimental value - I just wanted to be sure it wasn't massively valuable or I'd sell it and spend the money on an English wreath crown. :D

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 01:07:07 PM »
... or I'd sell it and spend the money on an English wreath crown. :D

If you ever want to sell it, please, contact me first.  :)

Offline bagerap

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Re: Angola 40 reis 1757
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 03:17:39 PM »
There is also a very healthy market for this type of coin in South Africa.