Author Topic: North African seal / papermark?  (Read 1006 times)

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Offline redwine

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North African seal / papermark?
« on: January 26, 2016, 09:50:38 PM »
8.1 x 30.85 x 31.85mm
La Semeuse [The Sower], the star and the cog are incuse but very shallow.
The star and cog appear the same in mirror image whereas the sower is then the correct way around.  A clue there perhaps?
66g
Similar material to the Benedictine piece, whatever that is?

I'm not sure if I've posted this before?
Any ideas what it is?
Many thanks ;D
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Offline malj1

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 10:49:42 PM »
Maybe for another wine bottle seal? the star and the cog would then appear in relief with the lady [The Sower] correctly shown.

...is the lady related to a certain brand of wine?
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 11:26:04 PM »
The lady is a design by Oscar Roty for the French state. The design was used on French coins and stamps until 1999. The star is probably a reference to Morocco, dating the object before the second world war. The cogwheel is likely a symbol for industry, so wine-making would be odd. I think it was used for some official financial business (including stamp duties and taxes) regarding industry.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline redwine

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 09:04:32 AM »
Yes, I think you're right Peter.  Something official.
Many many hours of searching French protectorates in North Africa has yielded zip!  :'(
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Offline saro

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 02:06:15 PM »
The lady is a design by Oscar Roty for the French state. The design was used on French coins and stamps until 1999. The star is probably a reference to Morocco, dating the object before the second world war. The cogwheel is likely a symbol for industry, so wine-making would be odd. I think it was used for some official financial business (including stamp duties and taxes) regarding industry.
I fully agree with Peter; I think that this die could have been used by french industry administration to put wax seals (patent deposits may be?) to legalize documents, in the time of the Morocco protectorate; the Roty sower was present on silver coins between 1898 & 1920 which dates your item.
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Offline lolo75002

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 10:24:59 PM »
Bonjour,
"C'est la pucelle du 523e Régiment du Train actuellement le 121 Régiment Du Train basé à Montlhéry (voir pièce jointe)
Mais normalement elle sème vers la gauche, peut-être que la photo est inversée?"
Please find here-attached a photo.
Best regards,
Laurent

This is the Maiden of the 523rd Supply Regiment, currently the 121 Supply Regiment based in Montlhéry (see attachment)
But normally she sows to the left, maybe the picture is reversed?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 03:57:14 AM by Figleaf »

Offline malj1

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 11:05:21 PM »
The impression of the sower would in fact be reversed when the seal is used.
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 03:58:26 AM »
Even the number of cogs is the same. That solves it very nicely, Laurent. Thank you.

Peter
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Offline malj1

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 04:20:50 AM »
Except for the rising sun in the background and the text?  ???
Malcolm
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Offline redwine

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Re: North African seal / papermark?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 06:52:10 AM »
Many thanks Laurent  ;D
I think the text and sun on the fob are necessary decoration whereas the stamp needs to be much simpler.  I could see those rays being smudged and make an official document a bit of a mess.
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