Author Topic: Clamour, Lille  (Read 2049 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Clamour, Lille
« on: December 27, 2015, 08:09:57 PM »
This token is not in Elie. It is 21.1 mm, 4.2 grams. Looks like nickel or nickelled. There is a greengrocer on that address now. The triangle and dots remind me of an American pool game, ten-ball variant. If so, it could have served with a coin-operated table.

I included a close-up of the triangle. Only the T at bottom right is clear to me.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 09:04:02 PM »
The game will have been an "automatic novelty" therefore operated by the action of one of these tokens going in a slot...

The lower line in the triangle seems to be a back-to-front "T&Cie"....

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 10:31:42 PM »
I think you are right on both counts. No luck on googling T & Cie.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 11:03:33 PM »
I believe T & Cie. to be Thevenon & Cie

ESTABLISHMENTS THEVENON - Head Office and factory - BP 18-71590 GERGY - FRANCE

...In fact the leading maker of these traditional stencils was known as ‘T & C’. That was all they ever put on the label. But the American designer Dave Siegel – who had plans to make his own stencil type – told me more:
“Somewhere around 1992, I went to Paris and found the company that makes these stencils they use everywhere. The company is called Thevenon, which at the time was located on rue Montmorency in Paris’s 4th arrondissement. There I met Madame Thevenon, the daughter of the man who started the company. she was in her seventies, yet she still ran the company every day. I learned a lot from her....

 Source

and

...The zinc stencils manufactured by Thévenon & Cie are now redolent of Corbusier. Stencils have traditionally been used as a convenient and economical form of public lettering as ‘everyday letters’...
Source
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 11:59:21 PM »
The business Victor Thévenon established in 1908 (not in Paris) is textile printing. I have not found any connection between the textile business and the "metal engravers", who had their business in Paris at least since 1791.

The token does indeed look younger than those of the period 1916-1923, but it's not as modern as all that either.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 12:14:23 AM »
That site shows the stencils:



here is more of that quote:
“Somewhere around 1992, I went to Paris and found the company that makes these stencils they use everywhere. The company is called Thevenon, which at the time was located on rue Montmorency in Paris’s 4th arrondissement. There I met Madame Thevenon, the daughter of the man who started the company. she was in her seventies, yet she still ran the company every day. I learned a lot from her, and I’ll summarize here. The stencils are produced somewhere in the center of France. In the early 1900s, there were two companies producing stencils – mostly for signage. Both these companies also made many other stamped and cut metal products, and they also made the enameled signs you see everywhere in France for denoting the numbers of the street addresses on all the houses and buildings. It was a friendly competition, and the two companies’ products were quite similar. The cool thing about these stencils was that they were designed differently at every size, so you could watch the transformation in design from a few millimeters to 1 meter (their largest size). Sometime in the fifties, the two companies merged to become Thevenon. The other company’s name was dropped.”

Thévenon & Cie are very much still in business as Établissements Thévenon at Gergy, a little town on the River Saône in Burgundy not far from places with resonant names like Mâcon and Cluny. The company makes all kinds of things in metal, like tokens and signs, and also the traditional stencils. I don’t know if they still make those metre-high ones, but I hope so. Stencils are still shown on the web site.


Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 12:21:07 AM »
From  French Silver Marks we have several choices:

T.&.Cie.    une croix de Lorraine 1913/1923    Tête (& Cie)
T.&.Cie.    une colombe, une étoile au-dessous1901/1905    Turpin & Cie)
T.&.Cie.    un trident 1906    Tridant, Lucien & Mathilde
T.&.Cie.    une pensée 1903    Thevenon (& Cie)

I think perhaps that triangle mark could refer to the first name?
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 12:52:57 AM »
Thank you Malcolm. That little list helped a lot. The sign at the top looks like it is a Lotharingian cross (croix de Lorraine.) Elie must have considered this token outside the scope of the catalogue. In his introduction, he says the catalogue does not cover i.a. tokens without a denomination. So I guess it is 1916-1923 after all. Since the token is not magnetic, it could be nickel-clad zinc, which would fit the series. One day, I'll find Monsieur Clamour and know what this was used for.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 01:09:43 AM »
I like to think its newer than those dates from the style.

Here are a few more on Catawiki
Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 12:19:13 PM »
I have confirmation from a French collector that the T&Cie below a pansy in a triangle is that of Thevenon.

So this one: T.&.Cie.  une croix de Lorraine 1913/1923    Tête (& Cie) should be the answer to the token at the head of this thread - Clamour, Lille

Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: Clamour, Lille
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 12:35:42 PM »
Forgot to add the Thevenon Mintmark to the last.

Malcolm
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