Aspers and akces

[Levantiner]

Asper = Acke?

[Figleaf]

Almost. The original asper is a 13th century Byzantine coin, imitating the Western European denier. The original akce was introduced a century later, imitating the asper from Trebizond. Both names refer to the "whitish" colour of the doubtful silver, but one in Greek, the other in Turkish.

Peter

[Manzikert]

[Peter did it again ]

Asper comes from the Byzantine aspron, via Trebizond. The akche in the 1440's was about 1.2 gm, so at this time the asper looks more like a half akche, but is actually in a different monetary system.

Alan

[Figleaf]

We're a great team, Manzikert

Peter

[EWC]

I always assumed these were really dirhems deriving from the Golden horde standard - and that the Ottoman akche ultimately derived from the double dirhems of the Ilkhanids.  Am I wrong on this?

Its easy believe that they were called Aspers, Akche or Dirhems rather indiscriminately at the time of use - since what they were called and what they actually were technically are not necessarily the same thing

[Levantiner]

I asked as in some  early 20th century literature Acke are called aspers

[Figleaf]

I always assumed these were really dirhems deriving from the Golden horde standard - and that the Ottoman akche ultimately derived from the double dirhems of the Ilkhanids.  Am I wrong on this?

My source on timeline and etymology: Dictionary of coin names by Adrian Room, ISBN 0710206461.

Peter

[Levantiner]

Seems that Asper is one of those terms that has been used very loosely.

 Freys "Dictionary of Numismatic Names"   (1917) doesn't include Acke  but includes Asper,   

A billon coin of the value of one-third of a para formerly current in Turkey and Asia Minor.............................The name is also given to to a silver coin of Rhodes in the fourteenth century and later...............in 1677 it was coined in the Republic of Genoa for levantine trade

[EWC]

My source on timeline and etymology: Dictionary of coin names by Adrian Room, ISBN 0710206461.

Thanks Peter.  Looking at Room's CV I am not convinced he is going to be good on technical numismatics - indeed, I wonder if he has rooted his conclusions in 15th century text at all?  Is he just compliing other peoples 19th and 20th century whims?

That the Ottoman akche is ultimately a weight reduced Ilkhanid double dirhem is an idea I got from Steve Album - private converstion back in the 1980's.  Looking quickly through his Checklist edition  III I see he mentions this matter in connection with Eretnid silver (pp 250-51).

That the Genoa AR's are to the Golden Horde dirhem standard just seems the best bet on the basis of the coins themselves - see Mitch Islamic (p. 320).  MM  seems to agree and calls them "dirhem" and  "denga"

But this is not a matter I investigated much, so would welcome comment.