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Author Topic: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'  (Read 1053 times)

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Offline malj1

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A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« on: November 28, 2015, 12:52:44 AM »
A large uniface copper casting of an oriental coin approximately 43mm and weighing 23.1g

...pretend its up the other way if you prefer that view.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 01:05:52 AM by malj1 »
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: A large uniface copper casting
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 02:35:07 AM »
I suspect the picture should be turned clockwise 90.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: A large uniface copper casting
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 03:06:02 AM »
I wondered!  ;)  or should it be another 90.

edit rotated another 90.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 10:36:09 AM by malj1 »
Malcolm
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Offline Manzikert

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Re: A large uniface copper casting
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 10:12:35 AM »
Yes, it should be another 90 degrees, your first post had it upside down.

It is a 'pan liang' or 'half ounce' type from the Han dynasty, c.180 BC or so, and they are normally about 16 grams at the most if I remember rightly (my heaviest is only about 5 grams). I will leave it to Bruce to comment about any possible authenticity: it would be worth PM'ing him :)

Alan

Offline malj1

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Re: A large uniface copper casting
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 10:51:33 AM »
Thank you, not sure if we know the same Bruce?

Here is the other side of the coin.
Malcolm
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Offline Manzikert

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Re: A large uniface copper casting
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 12:22:55 PM »
I mean bgriff99.

The reverse of these is normally flat like yours.

Alan

Offline malj1

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 01:07:38 AM »
Thank you, PM sent.
Malcolm
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Offline bgriff99

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 01:48:29 AM »
This is a copy of a "known" piece, Ding Fubao #388.   Its value was set at $100, which translates to $3000 today.   The catalog coin itself cannot be verified as ancient, but is attributed to Qin Dynasty, BC221-207.    This isn't such a good copy.

Offline malj1

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2015, 04:24:27 AM »
Thank you.

Any idea when the copies were made? I imagine it wasn't last week but some time ago from the patina.
Malcolm
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Offline bgriff99

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2015, 05:56:54 AM »
This is a chemically made patina, in a matter of hours or a couple days at most.    The coin is not a serious numismatic fake.

Offline Chinasmith

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 03:17:42 PM »
The Chinese have been making fake coins for collectors for centuries. The Chinese were publishing books on coins as early as the 7th century AD. A thousand years ago, fake bronze vessels were being made for collectors; I am sure they were also making fake coins. So a coin can be a thousand years old and still be a fake! During the past 30 years a lot of work has been done examining the metal composition of ancient Chinese coins. Sometimes this information can be used to identify fakes. For example, the Chinese did not learn how to produce zinc until around 1400, so yellow brass coins do not exist before that time. A knife or spade coin made of brass is definitely not genuine. Unfortunately most collectors do not have access to equipment to identify the metals in a coin. Last year I did see a hand-held metal identifying device which worked just fine on coins (non-destructive). But the device is priced at US $18,000.
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: A large uniface copper casting 'pan liang'
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 04:17:42 PM »
Interesting comment, Chinasmith. The key to understanding the Chinese attitude towards imitations is that in Chinese thinking, an imitation can be better than the original. Once you got your mind around that you understand things better. I am guilty of buying nice copies of centuries old objects (not coins) in China also.

So how do you deal with an imitation of a coin that did not want to deceive, but wanted to improve on the original?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.