Coins of Gwalior and Lucknow - In a Box dated January 1903

[Abhay]

My recent addition to the Gwalior Coins is this Box of Coins, with Gwalior and Lucknow coins in it.

Only three such boxes were made, and presented as a gift to the three visitors as named on box. One of the visitor, Mr. Francis N. Curzon, was the brother of then Viceroy of India, Lord George Curzon. He had come to visit India in 1903 with 2 of his friends, Hon. Lady Miller and Mr. Willoughby A. Pemberton. They had visited Gwalior and Lucknow in 1903, and this box of Coins was presented to each of them. This box recently came in auction at Ebay UK, and I was lucky to get it. 

Although each of the 8 coin present in the box is already in my collection, it was only due to this box, that I purchased these coins.

One notable point to be considered is that the box contains a Gold Coin named as "1 Gold Putlie", which happens to be a crude replica of Venetian Ducat Gold Coins. Although I have heard that the Gold Putlie was used as a gold Coin in the day to day transactions, this box now definitely proves that in fact, the gold Putlie was used in day to day transactions.

The photograph shows the visit of the Three visitors alongwith Lord Curzon to the Gwalior, where they are seen with Maharaja Jivaji Rao Scindia.

Abhay

[repindia]

There are many nice things being posted on these boards and this has to be one of the coolest (if not the number 1) ones being posted. Wow and just wow.

[repindia]

I missed this auction or else one of us would have paid too much for this one.

[Abhay]

I missed this auction or else one of us would have paid too much for this one.

Well, the listing was done only on Ebay UK, and until and unless you search Ebay UK, you won't know of it. Since I am interested in anything related to Gwalior, I have added "Gwalior" to my search list, and anything containing word "Gwalior" is automatically shown in the search results.

I was the only bidder for this box. If you look at the coins only, they are not very costly in themselves. So I guess no one else bid for the same. I paid GBP 200 for this.

I am glad that you have liked the Coins (or rather the box). Thanks.

Abhay

[Figleaf]

Fantastic addition to your already splendiforous collection, Abhay. The Scindias apparently had good relations with George Curzon and meant to keep it that way. Never mind he had a whole soccer team of brothers.

And what to think of the ménage à trois of those intrepid travellers? Her hat in the picture is grandiosely ridiculous in the Indian heat. Three Crusoës who wouldn't know how to adapt if they wanted to. The whole story of the box is superb, worthy of Kipling and a huge added value to the coins.

Thanks for posting!

Peter

[THCoins]

Nice piece of history, thanks for showing !
You say that these boxes were presented as a gift. Do you mean in India during the visit ?
I would say the box is clearly European, also looking at the jewelers mark of Watherston from old Bond street London. Could it not be so that this was made afterwards in England as a memento with coins brought home ? And in that case this would give no proof on the day to day use of the golden Putlie.

[Pellinore]

What an endearing object. I'm sure this is a souvenir brought from India to Britain. The box was probably made in Europe. Google can help you find Willoughby A. Pemberton (one minute of searching brought me to the town of Tarporley, east of Chester. In a collection of hunting songs from that place a portrait from his collection was printed.)
If I had this box, I would devote many happy hours of study finding out who these people were and what they did.

[THCoins]

As you i find the object quite intrigueing. As it is a slow day i also did some extra research into my doubts concerning the box.
The box clearly states that it is from Watherston at 42 Old Bond Street, London.West. This was a jewelry run by J. Henry Watherston. However, the first mention of the firm at this location i find in 1911.
From 1903-1911 the address of the shop was 6 Vigo street. This would imply the box dates from no earlier than 1911, and could not be given as a gift in 1903 in India ? 

Some references:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/term_details.aspx?bioId=77192
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28360/page/2896/data.pdf
http://www.mocavo.com/Whos-Who-1914/302604/29

[Figleaf]

By itself, that is quite possible. The party got hold of the coins as souvenirs and, upon return from the Great Adventure, eventually had them mounted in a box. The labels then become the surprising part. Scindia and his court would presumably have had no trouble identifying the coins, but for an arch-British jeweller on a fancy London address, it would have been a bit of a challenge. Maybe a British Museum type lent a hand. A more romantic solution is that Pemberton had run into William Valentine and he identified the coins for Pemberton.

Peter

[Pabitra]

Lucknow (Awadh ) and Gwalior were two different kingdoms, although by early 20th Century, Awadh was no longer independent ( ?).

It is not expected that gift of coins would be from one person. These obviously are gifted by either two persons or if gifted by one person, then he will not be King of Gwalior.

The box, therefore, has to be made for housing them later.

[aydrummond]

Abhay, I was most interested to find your post.

I grew up in a small village in Oxfordshire, England. When I was about 11 years old (1967 or thereabouts), a retired neighbour discovered that I had an interest in coin collecting. He said that he had a variety of coins from his worldly travels, and that he would like to give them to me. This gentleman would, every three to four years, travel to Germany, buy a Mercedes, and drive to India, where he had interests in a needle factory, peppercorn farm, and, presumably, other ventures as well. He would be gone for at least a year, for tax reasons. One day, he gave me a presentation box, and told me that there were only seven of them made (I trust your account more!), and that is all that I have known about the coins these past fifty odd years. So, I am, therefore, glad to be able to add this information to your post...

[Figleaf]

Thank you for posting this, aydrummond. Another piece in the puzzle. Apparently, Pemberton ordered the boxes and gave them to his fellow travellers, which contradicts the letter in reply #5. The text on the lid makes it obvious that there were two types of boxes: the three, as mentioned by Abhay above, for the intrepid travellers and an unspecified number (four is a distinct possibility, making a total of 7 as aydrummond wrote), mentioning the names of the members of the party, as on Abhay's specimen, for those that had to be thanked and are possibly in the photo in the first post. I presume one of the recipients of the second type of box was Maharaja Jivaji Rao Scindia.

Peter

[asm]

The left and Right coins in the bottom row are interchanged. The coin of Shah Jahan Surat is above the label of Shah Alam II Banaras while the Banaras coin is above the label of Shah Jahan Surat.
The central coin also is not likely to be Agra since I do not recollect seeing any Square Akbar Rupee from Agra.

Amit 

PS: As Peter mentions, both boxes are different and also do not have the same set of coins.