Can you identify this Archduke’s coin, found in the Netherlands?

Started by Pellinore, July 09, 2015, 08:57:45 AM

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Pellinore

This is the third coin I was given by an old cousin. The coins were probably found together, in the Netherlands. My cousin grew up on a farm near Oudewater and lived for a long time in Amsterdam. See this thread.

It's smaller than the others and more coppery. Its flan is cracked and Time has bitten off part of its edges.
I can read 'ARCHID ... TR DV Z', so it was minted by an Archduke.
23 mm. 1,18 gr.

Figleaf

I have come a long way, but not far enough. A coin of the dukes of Burgundy. My best guess is Philip the handsome.

Obv. I think I see a shield below a crown poking through a pearl circle at 12 o'clock. Legend is something like  PhS (d g) ARCHIDV(x aus)TR+OV+Z+ but I am not sure about the second V, since it is not pointy at the bottom, like the first V.
Rev. Long cross with small crutches breaking through pearl circle. Nothing between arms of cross (?). Legend: SIT+NO   MEN+DO   MINI+BE   NEDICT. The centre of the cross may have a large shield, small shield or no shield.

The secret is in the TR+OV+Z+ part. No, it's not Overijssel, because that is Trans-Isulania in Latin, but I checked Van der Chijs anyway.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Pellinore

Quote from: Figleaf on July 09, 2015, 11:29:21 AM
I have come a long way, but not far enough. A coin of the dukes of Burgundy. My best guess is Philip the handsome.

Obv. I think I see a shield below a crown poking through a pearl circle at 12 o'clock. Legend is something like  PhS (d g) ARCHIDV(x aus)TR+OV+Z+ but I am not sure about the second V, since it is not pointy at the bottom, like the first V.
Rev. Long cross with small crutches breaking through pearl circle. Nothing between arms of cross (?). Legend: SIT+NO   MEN+DO   MINI+BE   NEDICT. The centre of the cross may have a large shield, small shield or no shield.

The secret is in the TR+OV+Z+ part. No, it's not Overijssel, because that is Trans-Isulania in Latin, but I checked Van der Chijs anyway.

Peter

Thanks Peter, for your trouble! Could it be TR+DU+Z? And was the Z in use about 1500 in Latin? You'd think it could be TR+DUX. And do you know what type of coin it could be? That would make searching on the internet easier.

-- Paul

Pellinore

Another possibility would be: TR as last letters of AUSTR, DU as Dux. But the Z? What could that mean? It could be a 2, Z can be a 2 in a date.
-- Paul

Figleaf

It's been posted on a Dutch forum also, where people suggested TRaiectvm. I checked Van der Chijs (Utrecht) and couldn't come up with anything credible. Latest suggestion is TRaiectvm ad Mosam (Maastricht). Since this is long past Woeringen, that would mean an issue of the duchy of Brabant. One would expect a legend tail like TR+DV+B (ducatus brabantiae.) A B where the Z is would make it easier. AVSTR+DV+B would be perfectly OK. Could the Z be a 2 or a Z? I wouldn't rule it out. The quest continues.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Pellinore

Grrr, it's a difficult puzzle! Well, it can only be a Z, so much is clear, not a B. Could this point to a local imitation?
Let's take what we have: an archducal crown, probably the name PHS (I can see HS without problems), and under the crown not much: some parts of the field are not covered in oxydation/ grime, and they show... nothing at all, so an almost empty field with possibly a small armorial shield in the middle and maybe also a thin cross. 
The weight is 1,18 gr., but parts being broken off, we better think of a 1,3-1,4 gr. coin. The metal is (I think) a very coppery billon.
I could try and clean it a bit with a toothbrush, maybe some of the white stuff comes off.
-- Paul