Author Topic: Armavir: Civil War Coinage  (Read 6908 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bgriff99

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2014, 09:23:43 AM »
It can't be die clash, although it looks like an attractive solution. Note the star below the eagle and the •-• decoration below РУБЛЬ, both design aids that indicate the 6 o'clock position. The Б is right in the centre, so it cannot be left of the eagle's tail. The Р is too far to the left. If it were a die clash, there would have been a У left of the eagle's tail and whatever it is, it is not a У.

 Mysterious.

Peter

Peter,

Why is this not just ghosting of the U and L of Ruble?   That's a nice indicator it's a struck piece not a cast fake, which it doesn't begin to look like, but handy to have an immediate verifier if it's frequently forged.     (I learned about this on British halfpennies, but it happens on cash coins too.)

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 148
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2014, 10:08:41 AM »
The letters don't match, Bruce. The left letter has a closed top, the right letter an open top. Also, these coins are known to have been overstruck, which is a better explanation for what happens at the eagle's tail, except that the host coin doesn't seem to be Russian.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bgriff99

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2014, 12:32:14 PM »
OK.   I see incuse reversed-position letters U and L exactly under where those letters are on the other side.   In place on my screen measured with a ruler, one coin to the other.   The serifs are there even.   I don't know why the R and soft sign aren't showing.   The eagle wings are a deeper feature than those letters, too, and they don't show on the other side.   Krause mentions it has a thin planchet.   

Why should a host coin for an overstriking leave incuse lettering?   If overstruck, the likely suspects would be the imperial copper 2, 3 and 5 kopecks.    Identical sizes as the 1, 3 and 5 rubles.   Oops, they DO have incuse lettering, but not at that position.   And why should a host coin be placed in a die with some particular alignment to the new strike?   

I fetched out a 1905 2 kopeck piece.   It is rather thick, not thin.   Weight 6.35g.   I bet they milled them down first, deep enough to level the raised and incuse lettering.   















Offline MORGENSTERNN

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 12:58:10 PM »
Hello
I got an Armavir 3 Roubles that seems quite good and the price was nice for that type (123€ incl. shipping)
I'd like to have your opinion about it

Weight 7.61g diameter 28mm
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 02:28:13 PM by MORGENSTERNN »

Offline bgriff99

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 08:33:20 PM »
Very nice.   Are those marks from the flan metal being worked?    This one doesn't look like an overstrike.    I'm not a grading fanatic, and like to see some of that on older and emergency coins.

Offline MORGENSTERNN

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 09:51:59 PM »
VAre those marks from the flan metal being worked?
The marks seems to appear beneath the strike it appears clearly with the letter "M" when you got the coin in hand and play with light.
I think that most of those marks are flan defect so I consider this coin as an "error coin"
About the grade I had a good surprise compared to the seller pictures. Coin seems XF/AU with some lustre remains (or maybe old cleaning I'm not a grader) but the important point for me is to get a genuine coin not one of those numerous fakes (most looks ugly but some examples with 3 stars beneath the tail are quite realistic so take care of the spaces between letters and leaves on obverse)