Author Topic: Kwarezm Shahs: Jalal-ud-din Mangubarni, some unpublished Jital variants ?  (Read 3875 times)

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Offline THCoins

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Some effort has already been made towards an addendum to "Jitals". I am currently going through this at the request of mr Tye.
This is one of the reasons i reviewed my own specimen again with some extra attention, which has led to some of the recent posts.

Offline Figleaf

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Lots of good coming out of this. I wish you well.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline EWC

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An addendum, at least, is certainly in order.  Both Ton and Ram have already pointed up important additions.......

On the most recent coin - this looks to me like the product of an unofficial mint-  that is to say -  it is a contemporary fake.

The obverse die is badly engraved - the lettering looks like the die cutter held the graving tool in his fist rather than his fingers (joke)

The reverse is a much better die, but as Ton says - of a completely different ruler, Chahada Deva.  My guess is that this is some back street forgery operation, and the guy with the hammer did not know or did not care that he was muling dies from two different issues.

Occasionally such things happened even in official mints.  There is a rather celebrated coin from the Delhi mint that mules a Ghorid die with an earlier Hindu one.  What this tends to confirm is what we would already guess - that the Ghorids took the mint intact, the same guys struck the new coinage.  So there were still some old dies kicking about the place, one of which got picked up by accident.

At one time that coin was used to suggest something much grander – a period of joint rule.  I seem to recall John Deyell gets the credit for sorting that matter out…………….

Offline THCoins

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Over the years i have seen quite a lot of Mangubarni copper Jitals. In fact i have more which look pure copper than the reasonable silver quality that is considered the standard coinage. All of these come from different dies. Rather than calling these all contemporary forgeries i wonder whether it might have been the general practice in the Mangubarni reign to have circulating coinage made at multiple small mints.
The artistic level of execution can not be reliably used as as indication of an inofficial forgery during this period i believe. I would just have to mention the Quarlughid Saif-ud-din jitals from Nandana and the later Ghaznavid bull and horseman jitals from Kurraman which look like childrens drawings. Unfortunately, information on the origin of coin finds is usually lacking.

Offline EWC

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Ton

Mangubarni was only in Pakistan for about 4 years as I understand it.    I see no evidence that he  set up the idiosyncratic mint structure you propose.  Surely its much more likely that once he left there was no one to police his coinage, and copying it became a free for all?

The artistic level of execution can not be reliably used as indication of an unofficial forgery during this period i believe. I would just have to mention the Quarlughid Saif-ud-din jitals from Nandana and the later Ghaznavid bull and horseman jitals from Kurraman which look like childrens drawings.

My comment was about the level of craftmanship, not the artistry.  None of the coins you mention show the sort of defects I pointed up – all of them belong to scrupulously maintained engraving traditions.

Its important to keep a sharp eye out for these nuances of engraving, almost anyone can trip up over it. 

Take a look at Goron D14A  (p. 496 if the numbering is not adequate to locating it).  Stan followed Bill Spengler in making this a Ghorid coin.  Again it was John Deyell who spotted the nuanced engraving of a group of supposed bin Sam coins as being the work of Afghan copyists – D 276-278 – (T 163 and 164)  and that this therefore was actually a Khwarezm Shah Issue (D 279, T 241)

Offline THCoins

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Agree fully that local minting of coins probably indicates lack of government control rather than an official distributed minting system.
For the nuances of engraving i can only admit one has to see a lot of these to distinguish differences. And that's part of the reason i show these, without the intention to introduce every one of these as a new type  :)