Author Topic: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?  (Read 2052 times)

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Offline abhinumis

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Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« on: February 08, 2015, 10:19:20 AM »
Hi all,
Attached is a malwa type, ujjain mint. One can clearly see the emperor's full name on one side as Jallaluddin mohammad Akbar badshah ghazi and ujjain below the line on other side. The legend above the line on the mint side is speculation and open to discussion.. Please give your valuable comments..Bernard sir, Jan sir, Overlord, Amit ji. Awaiting your observatons
Dr.Abhishek

Online saro

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
Not easy...
It seems that is well a new variety.
Before any suggestion for the top line, I would be pleased to have a precision ( if possible..) : in the loop of the right letter there is something which looks like 2 dots ? did you confirm? or is it just an ornament? I am not able to see...
(in fact if there are dots : I'll have no idea  :-\)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 08:51:15 PM »
Well ,I think that is a large dot looking as smaller ones...Here is what I could make of the legend on one side..The ilahi year must be above ilahi(one can see a small remain of a line above ilahi.. Please give your opinion
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 09:57:48 PM by abhinumis »
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Overlord

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 07:18:14 AM »
Is the Alif (shown in Saro's excellent sketch) clear on the coin. I see something after "noon" as well, which wouldn't quite fit with Ujjain.

Online saro

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 09:22:05 AM »
Is the Alif (shown in Saro's excellent sketch) clear on the coin.

Dear Overlord, this masterpiece isn't mine...Abhinumis is to congratulate!

Only few parts of letters are present in upper part and it's really very difficult to rebuild the full text : if we have to read "Ilahi..." it's very curious to have the persian month before ("Bahman" suggested here), usually there is the place of the date in digits.

- The "alif" seems clear to me ??
A possibility could be the last part of the Kalima : "(rasu)L ALL(ah)" over "S" of "falus" as separating line  ??? rest of the formula could be off (with only a part remaining at left).
- Another mystery : after "(u)jjain", as noticed by Overlord, there is too something  ??? ("Chainpur" isn't possible, I think, because this coin is very typical of Malwa series).



"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online saro

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 10:48:43 AM »
Just a suggestion  ???
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2015, 02:37:41 PM »
There is no clear alif Overlord which makes me wonder about whether it is chainpur or not. But on a similiar discussion on FB, Shailendra Bhandare has commented "More likely to be Ujjain when compared to the design of silver coins, with Kalima on obverse." However the matter is open is open to discussion. I have been told about another specimen in Baroda in the hands of another good copper collector. Hope I get a pic soon to compare. This could be a possible Chainpur
Dr.Abhishek

Online saro

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2015, 03:55:47 PM »
What is its weight ?
6,5 to 6,8g may indicate an Ujjain weight std / a Chainpur copper should better weigh circa 5 or 10 g according to mughal std. (1/4 or 1/2 dam).
Correct or not ?

And the question is : what is written at top ???
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2015, 04:53:56 PM »
Dear Bernard, Chainpur mint in malwa standard are known.. So unfortunately weight cannot help. But the known coins have allahu Akbar on one side.
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=115961
Here is one example. Will try to post mine tomorrow showing better mint name
Dr.Abhishek

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 05:12:08 PM »
Yes! thank you, and I possess one....
So, unfortunately, the weight isn't the good criterion.
These  Chainpur coppers have not at all the same style, and not the same legend : I vote for "Ujjain"....
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar malwa type, Ujjain mint.. New variety?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 07:26:21 PM »
The style and calligraphy suggests Ujjain too.. Just was toying with Overlord's idea.. The kalima on the coin above the mint is unlikely in my opinion as there is no precedence to such a style. However such month besides ilahi are seen in tankis of Agra, and ilahi issues of Gorakhpur. In these the ilahi year is generally above the ilahi and month separated by a line
Dr.Abhishek