I want 1 € and 2 € banknotes! I'm tired of carrying all those coins around!

Started by Bimat, March 20, 2009, 06:00:32 PM

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Bimat

As I am a member of most of the (so called) Social Networking Sites,I always come across some funny communities/forums.On one such site (called Facebook),I found the group I want 1 € and 2 € banknotes! I'm tired of carrying all those coins around!  ;) As one needs to have a facebook account to see that page,I am giving the group description (as it is in the group):

European Central Bank should seriously consider the production and issue of 1 € and 2 € banknotes in all EU member states, because we are all getting tired of carrying heavy bimetallic coins in our pockets...Sharing the same opinion? Welcome to the group :)

V skratke, Európska centrálna banka by mala zvážiť vydanie 1 a 2 eurových bankoviek v členských štátoch EÚ, pretože nás už všetkých unavuje nosenie mincí vo vreckách...Máš rovnaký názor? Vitaj v skupine :)


Interestingly,the group has about 5335 members!!

My general comments:
1.Are these bimetallic 1 and 2 Euro coins really so heavy that one can't carry them (in number) at a time?
2.A 50 Euro cent coin is (little)heavier than 1 Euro coin.I guess they don't know this fact :P

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Figleaf

You are quite right not to take them seriously. They apparently are in desperate need of subjects to discuss and some brainpower to make up for apparent severe lack of muscle power.

I think those UK pound coins are more awkward, not for weight, but for bulk. Carrying around 10 pounds in coins in a pouch will strain the leather.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

chrisild

Quote from: numismatica on March 20, 2009, 06:00:32 PM
European Central Bank should seriously consider the production and issue of 1 € and 2 € banknotes in all EU member states, because we are all getting tired of carrying heavy bimetallic coins in our pockets...Sharing the same opinion? Welcome to the group :)

Yawn. What part of "No" do these people not understand? Now if they were for the introduction of a €5 circulation coin (ie. both "paper" and "metal" for that denomination), and/or for doing away with 1 and 2 cent coins, I may even join them ... ;)

Quote
1.Are these bimetallic 1 and 2 Euro coins really so heavy that one can't carry them (in number) at a time?

Yes, terribly heavy. A €1 coin weighs 7.5g and a €2 has a weight of 8.5g ... almost impossible to carry with you. And if you carry lots of them in your pockets, you may get caught with your pants down. How embarrassing.

Quote
2.A 50 Euro cent coin is (little)heavier than 1 Euro coin.I guess they don't know this fact :P

Ha, 50 cent notes now! Well, actually those I find a little bulky too. Guess what, the original plan was to make that a 7 gram piece - but the vending industry said it would have to be heavier. This way we got to the 7.8g ...

Apart from that, well, every time I hear such complaints and horror stories about big or heavy coins, I consider myself lucky to not live in a place where I would have to deal with dirty filthy low value notes. Also, for some sinister reason I don't have that many coins in my wallet. Not because I use plastic excessively, but simply because those coins you don't only get back as change - no, you can actually use them when making a payment!

Yes, I know I'm in a mean and rotten mood tonight. ;)

Christian

Bimat

Here is one interesting comment from one of the group member:

Italy, Greece, Austria and Slovakia have asked several times to introduce lower denominations of euro notes.[14] The ECB has stated that "printing a €1 note is more expensive (and less durable) than minting a €1 coin". On 18 November 2004 the ECB decided definitively that there was insufficient demand across the Eurozone for very low denomination banknotes. On 25 October 2005, however, more than half of the MEPs supported a motion calling on the European Commission and the European Central Bank to recognise the definite need for the introduction of €1 and €2 banknotes.[15] However it must be noted that the European Central Bank is not directly answerable to the Parliament or the Commission, and will therefore possibly ignore the motion.

Now,is printing a €1 note more expensive than minting a €1 coin?? The metal value(+ the production cost) of a 1 Euro coin will definitely be more expensive than the production cost of 1 Euro banknote.(If I am not wrong?)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

asm

Aditya,
It may not be that the cost is cheaper but the coins last ages. Notes wear out quite fast. This makes economic sence.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

a3v1

According to the European Central Bank the average life span of a € 5 note is 1.2 year. Note: This is an average. Many notes wear out much sooner and are replaced by new notes.
The average life span of 1 € and 2 € notes will be well under 1 year; and consequently many of these notes would have to be replaced every six weeks or so.
Coins of 1 € and 2 € are expected to live well over 30 years.
So in the end coins are much cheaper than notes and the only ones to benefit from a change to 1 € and 2 € notes are the printers of these notes.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
-------------
Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

asm

Quote from: a3v1 on March 21, 2009, 12:17:48 PM
.....and the only ones to benefit from a change to 1 € and 2 € notes are the printers of these notes.
Regards,
a3v1
besides the manufacturers of security printing paper, I guess.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Figleaf

...plus - in countries with electoral districts - politicians who represent the districts in which the paper makers and banknote printers are established.

So now you know who the usual suspects are.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

chrisild

In some euro countries dealing with coins that actually have a value may initially have been a problem. In Greece for example, the drachma coins you would get back in change were not worth much, and people would simply put them in jars or whatever, since carrying and spending them was too cumbersome. So I understand that in some member states the idea of a coin being more than "just a penny" was new ... several years ago.

As for Slovakia, yes, some people there wanted and maybe still want rag euros. But as far as I know, the Slovakian government has never supported that idea. And the lifespan of a €5 note is short indeed (see a3v1's reply). Lower denomination notes would have to be replaced even more often. Here are some data from the ECB (2007) about the average lifespan of the euro notes. Partly extrapolated of course; at that time the euro cash had been around for five years.

€500: 22.96 yrs / €200: 10.26 yrs / €100: 7.59 yrs / €50: 3.35 yrs / €20: 1.40 yrs / €10: 1.23 yrs / €5: 1.21 yrs

Ironically the lifespans of those euro notes will be even shorter since, when the new notes come (as from January 2011, I think), the current notes will cease to be legal tender. The "first generation" euro coins, however, are still in our pockets and can be used.

Christian

chrisild

Quote from: Figleaf on March 21, 2009, 02:06:12 PM
...plus - in countries with electoral districts - politicians who represent the districts in which the paper makers and banknote printers are established.

Why does that remind me of the son of a former French president? Ah yes ... About a year ago, Louis Giscard d'Estaing (member of the French parliament) called for low value euro notes "to rival the dollar bill". At least from his point of view the demand makes sense. His constituency is home to a Banque de France printing plant. ::)

Nah, if we want to modify the range of notes, it would make sense to do away with the €500 denomination. Maybe even €100 would suffice as the highest one, don't know. But starting a competition with the US about who has the lowest value note, that sounds odd to me.

Christian

asm

Quote from: chrisild on March 21, 2009, 02:59:09 PM
Nah, if we want to modify the range of notes, it would make sense to do away with the €500 denomination. Maybe even €100 would suffice as the highest one, don't know. But starting a competition with the US about who has the lowest value note, that sounds odd to me.
Christian
Christian,
I do agree with your point. I am not sure howmany people handle the higher value denomination in Europe. As I believe, a lot of transactions are done through plastic, many people do not need to use the higher denominations. I was in Munich for an exhibition last year and since we were exhibiting, I had carried some 100, 200 & 500 Euro notes. I had some difficulties cashing the 100 Euro notes. When I habded over the 200 Euro notes, I got a not so polite look. But, at the times I tried to pay with a 500 Euro note, not only was the lady at the counter quite upset, another customer behind me also looked at me suspiciously and (I believe as it was said in German & do not understand the language) told her to check the authencity of the note. It took me more than 10 min. to get the lady  to agree to accept the note. She told me that she had never handeled such a note and was confused. Since then, I have never taken a note bigger than 50 Euro when I travel.
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

chrisild

The €500 note comes in handy when you buy a car at one of those used car markets here. Apart from that, umm ...

Keep in mind however that the denominations of the euro notes were agreed upon in 1994. That is about fifteen years ago, and the largest German (DEM) note back then had a value of about €511. The German government definitely wanted a euro note with a similarly high value. Ironically the 500 denomination is primarily used further south now: According to the central bank (Banco de España) more than one fourth of all €500 notes "circulate" in Spain and account for two thirds of the cash volume in the country.

Not that anybody uses them in public there; they are as unpopular and practically invisible as in any other euro country. The only time I have ever seen a €500 note was when I went to my bank and asked for it. I wanted to see and hold it at least one time! After that, nada. :)

Gas stations and many other stores in Germany do not accept €500 notes; with €200 you may have similar problems. Now a €100 note - well, it depends. The smaller the store, and the smaller the purchase, the less popular a €100 will be. And quite a few stores in, say, the Netherlands will not accept any denomination above 50.

Kind of interesting though that apart from our cash we still do not have means of instant payment that can be used anywhere in Euroland. In Germany for example pretty much everybody has a Maestro/EC debit card. Stores in other countries may or may not accept it, and that also applies the other way round. Sure, many have credit cards, but they still are not as widely accepted as those debit cards - and even they can be different. Try using a chip-less credit card at a French gas pump ...

And yet the need for high value (€200, €500) notes, if there ever has been one, will continue to decrease. So in my opinion the "new generation" euro notes would be a great opportunity to stop issuing and using them. But don't add low value notes at the other end of the range please.

Christian

Figleaf

Even a €50 note may sometimes be refused in the Netherlands. This is all the more bizarre as not so long ago, a ƒ1000 note was perfectly acceptable for a large purchase.

My experience with debit cards is different. I carry a Visa and a Maestro debit card and one of the two is almost always accepted, albeit that in East Asia, there are very few ATMs and most shops do cash only. I tested American Express, Eurocard and Diners and found those much less accepted. Only in Britain and Greece have I regularly encountered charges for using a debit card. If I have the time, I solve that either by not buying or with the help of an ATM (which also charges a fee, but at least it's not going to the party that offended my sense of justice).

The latest move to fragmented payment systems is parking meters. Some Dutch cities (Amsterdam is a notorious example) will not accept any cash and insist on a card you can only get if you have a bank account in the Netherlands. Some German tourists lost a test case against a Dutch city recently, as the judge reasoned that the city can impose any restriction on parking it wants. Who needs tourists anyway? ::)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

chrisild

Guess that Amsterdam has enough tourists anyway, plus, they will prefer visitors who use public transport. ;D  Paris is another notorious example; they have some parking card too. In most German cities you can use cash to pay parking lot fees, of course, but also the Geldkarte (similar to your Chipknip* but much less popular) or a cellphone (but that requires signing up first). Again, the only means of payment that anybody can use is cash.

* Actually you can get prepaid GeldKarte and Chipknip cards with a charged chip, see http://www.geldkarte.de/ and http://www.interegi.nl/  Sure, things would be much easier from a user's POV if the same type of chip card worked anywhere, but that would require some kind of agreement. Phhhh ...

Christian

BC Numismatics

I'm sure that 1 & 2 Euro notes would be very popular with collectors,especially if the 1 & 2 Euro notes are from Cyprus,Ireland,& Malta.

Aidan.