Brass boxes (model coins)

[mooreman]

Nice set,  they all look like the reeded edge, is that right. Do  you have the little bag that they supposedly came in, inside a little box. Saw the box years ago, out bid.

[malj1]

No put the set together over a few years.

[mooreman]

I didn't know those Onions were that dangerous.
Get well soon. Jason

[malj1]

Glad the POW Box top arrived ok, I need a base for the G. 1V box, Rogers 4090.  21mm inside or there about,.....

This box lid arrived today in a job lot, very scruffy but extremely rare!  ...very similar to 4091 but reads GULIELMUS IIII DEI GRATIA with the unmistakeable bust of William IV   

copper foil, 23mm. So I too need a base now. 

[bagerap]

This is a copper foil box which I'll try to dig out over the weekend. Farthing size or slightly larger IIRC.

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

[malj1]

This is nice especially for a RRR specimen. Rogers # 4090 is said to read Georgivs but I see that one is Georgius - maybe a typo of course.   

RRR = only one seen.

[bagerap]

Surprisingly enough, this was in the correct file drawer. Doesn't happen very often since I moved offices.

22 mm. It came in a job lot and, for quite a long time I didn't even realise that it was a box.

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

[malj1]

You were lucky.     I should image the same box bottom with the Britannia should fit my William IV too.

Here is your image reduced to 25%...

[bagerap]

Malcolm, where does this fit? Is it best described as Toy money?

I collect imitations, models and toy money but this is a bit of an outlier.

[malj1]

These boxes all contained various model coins originally, probably at one time this one would have contained those of George IV which are very rare, I think I only have one George IV model coin.

They are listed at the back of Rogers book Toy Coins.

[DavidP]

I was fascinated when I read about your reference to the G.Dee Model Crowns .... and particularly as I have recently managed to acquire an example of this coin !  From what I have read on World of Coins, I believe there are 4 known examples, leaving another 2 which are yet to be found ?  Is my understanding correct then, that only 6 pieces were struck ?  So, I suppose the example I have then might be number 5 ?
I seriously need to find a copy of A.K. Barter's book 'Model Crowns volume 2' from somewhere in the hope that this work will help me in my quest to understand more about this series of coins and in particular this fellow G.Dee, who until recently I had never heard of, to be honest. The other Model Crowns I have in my collection are all 'published by H. Hyams' and I was genuinely surprised to find that another 'publisher' existed in the shape of Mr. Gee !
Any information or help from World of Coins members would be much appreciated in this little quest of mine.
I will try and post a couple of pics on here, when I have managed to figure out how to do this !

[constanius]

 On page 141 there is listed a George Dee, stamper and piercer; court, 2, Ludgate hill in "History, gazetteer, and directory, of Warwickshire
 By White Francis and co 1850"  https://books.google.ca/books?id=Wb4HAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=George+Dee+die+sinker&source=bl&ots=QuRDDk-o3B&sig=8QrCMgTEvd0vqL-317o8N0oqtO4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=faNbVc-DEJGyyATqs4P4CQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false 

Die-sinker, stamper & piercer were allied trades, as an example see this license where Jenkins licenses Hillard & Thomason to manufacture jewelery to his design and he might have published them under his own name.

Licence from Henry Jenkins of Birmingham die-sinker, stamper and piercer, to John Hilliard and John Thomason of Birmingham, silversmiths and copartners, to manufacture bracelets, brooches and other articles of jewellery, according to a letters patent for an invention of improvements in the manufacture of bracelets, brooches and other articles of jewellery.

The name, George Dee, date & occupation make him a possible/likely candidate for being the publisher of the Model Crown

Pat

[DavidP]

Many thanks for the info, Pat.
Yes, it does look likely that George is the man. I wonder why this fellow was introduced, after the previous and more commonly found name of Harry Hyams, on the other crowns ? Perhaps the licence was time limited or switched for other reasons, maybe.

[malj1]

Rogers didn't have an example when he compiled the book Toy Coins so it only gets the very briefest of mentions:

207. as 205 except signed PUB: BY G. DEE in place of H Hyams. RRR*

I attempted to search the on-line collection in the Fitzwilliam Museum: From the estate of Dr David J. de Sola Rogers (1946-99) but the pages are so slow loading that I had to give up.

...it may be there. 

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[DavidP]

Thank you, Malcolm.

I managed, eventually (Wow, it's slow !) to find the Model Crowns listed in the Fitzwilliam Museum and they have seven varieties listed ... CM.2968-2003 to CM.2974-2003 starting on page 550. All the varieties are listed with the 'issuer' as H.Hyams, including the '18 48' (instead of H.Hyams) variety and the 'blank' (instead of H.Hyams) variety, which are both attributed to H.Hyams as being 'inferred'.  However, unfortunately, they do not have the G.Dee variety listed.

I wonder what is listed in A.K.Barter's book, 'Model Crowns volume 2' ? .... I would love to see a copy of his book on the subject.