Author Topic: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"  (Read 12878 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2017, 12:02:13 PM »
12-SIDED POUND COINS

The story so far.

1. The Isle of Man will introduce a 12-sided pound, but not before 2019.

Thu, 19 Oct 2017

The Treasury Minister says the Isle of Man won't introduce a 12-sided one pound coin before 2019.
When asked if there are plans to change the design of Manx coins, the Minister claimed it would take a period of time to arrange, with no 12-sided coin entering circulation until at least 2019.

Source: EnergyFM

2. Gibraltar will probably issue the 12-sided pound in 2018.

The Government of Gibraltar hopes that The Royal Mint will have stock by the end of this year and so that the 2018 coin set of Gibraltar will have the new 12-sided 1 pound coin.



I understand the the Channel Islands have no plans to introduce their own. Please correct me if I am wrong. I believe that we have yet to hear from St. Helena and Ascension and the Falkland Islands.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2017, 07:34:47 PM »
The UK and the Six.

The currency of the UK is the pound sterling. It is an independent currency. Six other entities also use their own version of the pound sterling: the three British crown dependencies, and three British overseas territories.

1] The crown dependencies.
  • Jersey.
  • Guernsey.
  • The Isle of Man.

2] The overseas territories.
  • Gibraltar.
  • The Falkland Islands.
  • St. Helena-Ascension.

The Six use currency boards, meaning that their version of the pound is backed by other currencies and is not an independent currency. However, their versions of the pound are fixed in value to that of the UK pound sterling.

Whenever the UK issues a new standard coin, such as the bimetallic pound coin, or the smaller 5p and 10p and 50p coins of the 1980s, or the nickel-plated 5p and 10p coins of recent years, the Six usually follow the UK's example - often at different speeds! We are now waiting for the Six to introduce their own bimetallic pound - though some have said they won't introduce one. We shall see!

Recently it came to me to use the phrase "The UK and the Six". I have described the Six above. I would like to encourage others to use that term for shortness. Maybe somebody on another forum or elsewhere has already used the term. It's often the case that a term is not really original, as it occurs to several individuals at the same time.

 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 08:01:29 PM by <k> »
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2018, 08:00:41 PM »
Bring me up to date on "the six", then. We know the UK has:

1] a new Queen's portrait

2] a bimetallic circulation pound

Which of "the six" so far have 1], 2] or both? How does the overview look?
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Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2018, 07:26:25 PM »
There’s not much to report, but here is what I know.  eurocoin may well know more or could find out.

I have added 3] - new 1p and 2p issues (or lack of).

Isle of Man
1] The only one of the six to be using a Jody Clark portrait, albeit an uncouped one.  If the couped portrait is reserved just for the UK (and that’s unconfirmed), Isle of Man is using the only one offered to them.
2] Still issuing the round pound.  Unique among the six to have withdrawn the UK round pounds, and also accepting the UK 12-sided version alongside its own round one.  It was presumably an arduous task to separate UK and Isle of Man round pounds, so we must assume some may have slipped through (and possibly UK visitors since using up their round pounds there?)
3] Appears to have deleted 1p and 2p from their new series of coins, but existing coins in circulation remain.  No formal withdrawal, and it’s possible there are sufficient supplies of older series 1p and 2p still to be issued?

Gibraltar
1] Using the somewhat inferior Pobjoy portrait.  Gibraltar portraits were aligned with those of the UK until 2004 when they deviated significantly by dropping the Rank-Broadley and adopting a new uncouped Maklouf. 
2] Still issuing the round pound, as evident from the newly-issued 2017 referendum anniversary series.
3] A recent series had abandoned the 1p and 2p (as with Isle of Man, older series remain in circulation) but the referendum anniversary series appears to have reinstated them.

Bailiwick of Jersey
1] Most recent regular coin issues were dated 2016 (1p to 50p) and still carried the Rank-Broadley a year after the UK replaced it.  Aligned with the UK portrait from 1968 to 1984 and again from 1998 to 2015, the Machin portrait was retained for the years 1985 to 1997, so it’s possible Jersey may skip this change and retain the Rank-Broadley.
2] In common with Guernsey, but unlike Isle of Man and Gibraltar, Jersey has withdrawn all round £1 coins.  A Jersey version has not been introduced, and for the first time since before 1981, only their £1 note is issued for this value.  UK 12-sided £1 coins reported as issued there, uncertain if the banks are still issuing them or whether their supplies now just come from UK visitors.
3] Still issued with the recent 2016 date.  Unlikely to cease issuing them unless they are withdrawn in the UK

Bailiwick of Guernsey (including Alderney, Sark, Herm)
1] Most recent regular coin issue dated 2012 (I’ve seen nothing on the web proving otherwise, but six years is among the longest amounts of time Guernsey has ever gone without issuing new dates).  Therefore difficult to determine if Guernsey will change portraits.  Aligned with UK portraits since first using them in 1985, the Rank-Broadley one was an awkward one for them to accommodate as it meant reducing the size of their coat of arms cameo.
2] Exactly as Jersey.
3] Future issues unlikely to delete these denominations unless the UK does.

Falkland Islands
1] Whilst Jersey finally abandoned the Machin in 1998, the Falklands did not do so until 2004 (apart from at least one denomination - the 50p - which did so in 2003).  The replacement was the then-current Rank-Broadley effigy.  This in mind, it might be too soon for them to change again with regular coinage.  No post-2015 issues that I’m aware of, so unsure.
However, commemorative issues, particularly the penguin 50p issues, are using the Pobjoy portrait as that company is producing them.  Royal Mint handle the regular issues (or at least did - uncertain but unlikely that Pobjoy has taken this over as well).
2] As previous new coin specifications (small 5p, 10p, 50p plus the bi-metal £2 and original £1) all took several years to come to fruition in the Falklands, it’s unlikeky that a 12-sided £1 will be issued for a number of years.  Remoteness of islands mean that UK round pounds finding their way there must be few?
3] Unlikely to abandon 1p and 2p.

St Helena + Ascension
1] First introduced its own coins in 1984 with the then-current Machin portrait which was replaced in 1991 by the Maklouf which remains in use to date.  It is therefore the one that’s most due a change but coin issues are sporadic - several denominations dated 2015 were issued but these were the first since 2006.  If portrait is changed, we may have to wait several years for the next issues.
2] Very similar to the Falklands in this respect.  However, this is partly because coin issues are so scarce.  No 5p or 10p between 1991 and 1998, so reduction in sizes not seen until the latter year.  As it has been reported that older-specification coins are freely accepted alongside the new, it’s likely that if any UK £1 coins reached these territories, they would be sharing till space with the St Helena round pound.  It could be many years - if at all - before a 12-sided version for them appears.
3] For similar reasons expressed in 1] and 2], highly unlikely to remove the 1p and 2p.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2018, 08:07:42 PM »
Excellent overview! Thanks.

I read years ago on a St Helena forum that one person had taken the ship to the Falkland Islands and was disgusted that the Falklanders refused to accept his St.Helena-Ascension coins and notes. Fortunately he had some UK money with him, which also circulates on St Helena. I wonder how many Falklanders and inhabitants of St Helena make the trip to each other's territory?
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Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2018, 09:50:12 PM »
Isle of Man

[...]

If the couped portrait is reserved just for the UK (and that’s unconfirmed)

Incorrect, this has been confirmed to me by The Royal Mint long ago.


St Helena + Ascension

[...]

If portrait is changed, we may have to wait several years for the next issues.

Saint Helena and Ascension will be minting 1 pound coins in 2018 and therefore we will soon know if they will change the portrait. I know they were considering to make design changes but were unwilling to confirm anything yet earlier this year, although I guess the fact that they have introduced the Jody Clark portrait on their collectors coins from this year is a clear indication of what will happen.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2018, 10:38:14 PM »
Thanks, eurocoin, for the corrections.  I was doing all of that from memory so knew I might be incorrect on one or two things.  I’m surprised there’s not more!  Interesting about St Helena.  It would therefore be the first portrait change on regular coinage there for 27 years.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2018, 11:53:54 PM »
A few thoughts...

I think I said when the 12-sided £1 coin was issued in the UK that I was fairly sure that the six would each issue their own versions at some point.  I’m now less sure of that than ever.

If we leave out St Helena + Ascension and the Falklands, both of which have largely been laws unto themselves in their coinage histories and done things at their own paces, the remaining four have all aligned themselves with the UK when issuing new denominations (20p, £1, £2) and major specification changes (5p, 10p, 50p, £1).  All have issued them simultaneously with the UK and withdrawn older versions at similar times.

Jersey and Guernsey were unique at the time in having their own coinages prior to decimalisation.  They therefore issued their original 5p and 10p in 1968 with the UK.  Isle of Man joined them for full decimalisation in 1971.  All three tried out their own versions of a £1 coin but all three conformed to UK specifications in 1983.  All other new denominations/spec changes were at the same time as the UK.

The remote islands of the Falklands and St Helena + Ascension added their own coinages in 1974 and 1984 respectively, with both being out of step with the UK from the start.

Gibraltar was the last of the six to introduce its own coinage, with the full (then) range of £1 to 1p.  As this was in 1988, it wasn’t long before the 5p and 10p lost weight, but Gibraltar nevertheless conformed with these, along with the other changes in the late 1990s.

Fast-forward to 2018 and not one of them has issued their own 12-sided £1.  Jersey and Guernsey have the closest approach, both having withdrawn round £1 coins altogether but deciding not to bother with their own for the new version.

Gibraltar and Isle of Man are both co-circulating the two types of £1, a situation that neither had done for long periods before but both apparently plan to do indefinitely (?). How this is workable is anyone’s guess.  St Helena + Ascension have apparently done this for years with 5p, 10p and 50p but their remoteness means they aren’t going to get many UK round pounds being offloaded there.  Gibraltar and Isle of Man surely will.

Onto portraits.  A quick history.  Where dates not specified, it can be taken that portrait was introduced at the same time as it was in the UK.

Machin - adopted by four of possible five (Gibraltar’s coinage was first issued after the end of the Machin era).  Guernsey was the exception as it didn’t have the reigning monarch on its circulation coins at the time.  Isle of Man from 1971, Falklands from 1974 - first coinage - and St Helena + Ascension from 1984 - again, first coinage).

Maklouf - four of six (Jersey retained the Machin throughout this era.  Falklands likewise, although one denomination - the £1 - carried the Maklouf from the denomination’s introduction there in 1987. Gibraltar from 1988 - first coinage - and St Helena + Ascension from 1991).

Rank-Broadley - five of six (St Helena + Ascension retained the Maklouf.  Falklands retained the Machin for 1998, 1999 and 2000 coins but adopted the Rank-Broadley for their next issue in 2003, and for all denominations in 2004.  Gibraltar abandoned this portrait from 2004, so only ever four of six simultaneously).

Clark - one of six so far (uncouped portrait, from 2017.  Confirmed that couped portrait is for UK use only.  First portrait since the Gillick in 1967 that will never be seen on the coinages of any of the six).
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 12:11:03 AM by Alan71 »

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area"
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2020, 11:07:36 PM »
I have just made some corrections to some of the out-of-date info in the parent topic, "The Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area".

Here I will ask for help on some of the remaining parts.



The pound sign.

"So many pound coins but so few pound signs. How many pound coins show the pound sign? Three."

Is this still true?



"£2" or "TWO POUNDS" ?.

As of 2011, only 6 two pound coins have used "£2" in the legend.

As of 2020, is that still true?



If you see any other outdated info, please let me know.

Probably the 'Styles and Titles' post and those regarding the different royal portraits need updating. Gibraltar in particular (also IOM) tends to make rapid changes in this regard.
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