Grading coins

[Alan Glasser]

Hello again, Akona20. Another very interesting post.

So now the ancients are going into "plastic coffins"? Maybe a good thing for preservation but there must be a zillion ancients out there. That will keep the companies busy for a while. What will be next? Play money? Gambling tokens?

Now don't get me wrong. I see the value of certification in some instances, such as for very rare pieces, authentication, rare high grade examples, detection of fakes (though I lost my 1795 U.S. dollar because of the failure of 1 "reputable" company to detect a fake...it is now in the possession of the U.S. government) and possible cleaning issues. Oh, let's not forget identification of scarcer varieties...also a good service but for the run of the mill coins that I now collect...along with many others here...I just don't see the value of the plastic.  If I was going to drop big dollars on a rare coin, I would seek the opinion of a certification company...but those days are pretty much over for me. I have a grandson I want to put through college...and survive to a ripe old age in my retirement...no big price tag coins for me.

I find it reassuring that in your last line, the knowlegable collector WILL buy the coin at asking...plus a nice percentage...even if it's not in a slab. I do hope that this is the going school of thought and certification will be much more limited to true rarities and "better coins". It is a shame that the slab craze has driven many young collectors out of the hobby (in my opinion) because now, a yc needs to pay for the coin he loves...and the plastic! My neighbor's grandson (17) and I are spending Saturday together as he is a budding collector and wants to know "everything" about the hobby. This issue will certainly come up and I will TRY to present both sides...but the bottom line is....certification is good on occasion...but do not feel compelled by the slab!

I could go on and on...and probably will at some point. Life as a collector was so much easier before "the slab" and as a kid...I could fill those blue Whitman penny boards and find affordable coins at shows that were in cardboard 2x2 holders. I obtained many of my early U.S. pieces like this and slabbed them later and only once did I get stuck with a fake (when I bought the SEGS CERTIFIED 1795 dollar). Hit several cleaned coins too as a kid...still have several of them in body bags...but it is a valuable learning experience. By far, most of the coins slabbed well and the dealers "back then" realized a kid collector was a serious adult collector in the making. I still see this sometimes...but I wouldn't risk several hundred $ or more without the opinion of a "slabber". For the small stuff...I'll take my chances.

Alan   Massachusetts 

[akona20]

Looking at a price to set for setting?

In a re appraisal of this subject my advice is to undertsnad what you are buying, buy from reputable dealers and anything over $750 is worth a slab or similar.

[Alan Glasser]

I agree, Akona...but my "slab" threshhold is a bit lower. But I don't often buy material in the multi-hundreds of $ any more. That may change if I go back to the U.S. type set collecting...or working on the Peru set...but I don't see it in the immediate future. Only PCGS and NGC are in the running. ANACS is a backup. What ever happened to IGC?? Are they still around and what is their credibility rating? Does anyone have any information on them?

Alan   MAssachusetts

[akona20]

Perception is very interesting here with PCGS running first as the best followed by NGC then the other two somewhat tied. IGC are still there and very good at detecting fakes and altered or repaired coins, in fact in my view over time probably the best at this.
There was some criticism of IGC a few years ago allegedly over grading top quality coins but I think that was more negative talk from the competition than anything of substance. PCGS certainly was a bit scatty at the top end of grading but being somewhat of a pessimist i put that down to earning money on the regrading service, part of the whole deal.

PCGS especially has been good at working over the auction houses at all levels to ensure they receive the biggest praise. Go with the mob I guess.

[Alan Glasser]

Akona20. Hello.

Thanks for your input in the "ratings" of Certifying agencies. Out of curiosity, does SEGS figure in somewhere or are they too far behind the pack to matter?

All the best.  Alan Massachusetts

[akona20]

I have never been a clloecor of US coins or hold any knowledge of them but the Segs team are certainly specialists in specific areas of US coinage, probably as good as anyone in that area. Their holder is rather nifty and the descriptions also precise.

[chrisild]

BU coins are always free of bag marks and finger prints - that is why they are specially packed by workers wearing gloves in the mint

Accidentally I just saw this Royal Mint blog post: "Our entry-level commemorative collectable is called 'Brilliant Uncirculated' or 'BU'. BU coins are processed in a similar way to circulating coins, but take over twice as long to produce."

Christian

[mrbrklyn]

Can you grade this one?

http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1365522921/0#4

[Alan Glasser]

Hello, mrbrklyn. That is a coin design I have often admired. I don't have one but I would exect that it circulated minimally, if at all. I'm far from expert in this sort of thing but the coin has so many "high points" to share any signs of circulation, grading would be a challenge. Just a guess but I would think that wear would show at the ends of the rays away from the center though these would be partially protected by the rim. In my humble opinion...this is a tough call on grading. 

Alan

[mrbrklyn]

Accidentally I just saw this Royal Mint blog post: "Our entry-level commemorative collectable is called 'Brilliant Uncirculated' or 'BU'. BU coins are processed in a similar way to circulating coins, but take over twice as long to produce."

Christian

They can't be free of bag marks, not for mint coins.  Proofs, maybe.

[mrbrklyn]

Hello, mrbrklyn. That is a coin design I have often admired. I don't have one but I would exect that it circulated minimally, if at all. I'm far from expert in this sort of thing but the coin has so many "high points" to share any signs of circulation, grading would be a challenge. Just a guess but I would think that wear would show at the ends of the rays away from the center though these would be partially protected by the rim. In my humble opinion...this is a tough call on grading. 

Alan

I've having trouble with the photography.  I've been told it is easier to get the white balance correct with RAW mode, but the software seems to be objecting.  For one thing, it insists on using "temperature" to white balance the coin which is a lousey color theory and gives no control.

Ruben

[chrisild]

They can't be free of bag marks, not for mint coins.  Proofs, maybe.

Well, apparently they (the Royal Mint's BU coins) can. Much if not most of this topic deals with the question whether "BU" is a grade or a special way of producing coins. See Andy's earlier reply here for example ... and in fact the many posts before and after it.

Christian

[bruce61813]

If you have trouble getting the correct color while photographing a coin, try a 18% gray card. You may also need a good photo editing program. Shoot the coin on the gray card, then use the photo-editing program to identify the neutral gray [18%].  That should correct the density, and can aid in correcting color tint.

bruce

[zookeeperz]

If you have trouble getting the correct color while photographing a coin, try a 18% gray card. You may also need a good photo editing program. Shoot the coin on the gray card, then use the photo-editing program to identify the neutral gray [18%].  That should correct the density, and can aid in correcting color tint.

bruce

I use a program called photoscape. Its free which is always cool. I got it because i can rotate any angle from 1 to 360 . Which comes in very handy for lining up letters or numbers with denticles or gaps between. and it has a grid in view so you can make sure its in the correct position. Which is excellent for putting many of the same obverse or reverse . So you can compare differences knowing they are all set exactly the same. It also has a lot of editing modes with a film editor mode which gives a preset shade of colour 35 of them at low/med/high so 105 shades in total. It has saved me countless times. I set my camera on SR Auto but it doesn't do what it is supposed to. If I try manual well i just get fuzz lol.

Zoo