Author Topic: Fake coins of the Netherlands and its colonies  (Read 15188 times)

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Offline thelawnet

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 04:08:38 AM »
I reckon that the contemporary forgeries are worth collecting,as they were struck with the intention of filling a coin shortage.

A similar thing occurred in Canada,especially with the Nova Scotian coins dated 1832,in which contemporary forgeries were struck,& some of the dies were incorrectly dated '1382'.These error date contemporary forgeries command a huge price,especially in Canada.


I think they were made primarily to earn a profit for the forgers. Duits were forged for many years, and because the bullion value of the coins was so low compared with their nominal value.

They are not really any different from modern pound coin forgeries (which are very common).

Offline Samuel Tan

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2009, 10:38:11 AM »
My comments:
If the coins has little value why should they put an effort? To make coins looks worn out like that takes times and a lot of efforts.
They could sand them down, but it will shows uniformed direction. Polished? Then they have to aged it.
If they made counterfeit, why not perfect like the lettering should be centered etc. Indonesian are not a good (perfect) counterfeiter.
They don't spell NEI or Netherlands East India, only Indonesian (like Indian lettering, they called hana caraka) or Dutch which is VOC or Vereinigde Oostindische Compagnie

Think about it. If you don't want it just let me know :)
Samuel Tan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2009, 11:31:45 PM »
Good questions. I'll try to answer them.

If the coins has little value why should they put an effort?

The forgers had no choice. Due to an error in tarification, practically all of the circulating coins at the time were copper.

To make coins looks worn out like that takes times and a lot of efforts.

The piece was weakly struck in the first place. However, I think it actually was accepted as a coin, not because it is such a good fake, but because coins were so scarce that even fakes were acceptable.

If they made counterfeit, why not perfect like the lettering should be centered etc. Indonesian are not a good (perfect) counterfeiter. They don't spell NEI or Netherlands East India, only Indonesian (like Indian lettering, they called hana caraka) or Dutch which is VOC or Vereinigde Oostindische Compagnie

At the time, most Indonesians couldn't read. Those who had learned how to read were in most cases familiar only with Arabic writing, as reading was taught in the first place in order to be able to read the Koran. Therefore, the forger copied the letters from a genuine coin, but didn't know what the letters were supposed to look like or what they meant. Our forger was not trying to spell NEI, but L.N. (see the picture in Reply #1, this is the coin that was imitated), except he put it in upside down (or, if you wish, he put the star on the wrong side). This can happen when cutting a die directly, i.e. in mirror image.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Samuel Tan

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2009, 11:57:48 PM »
So this is an old forgery, to survive the poverty. not a modern forgery to cheat the collectors for profit.  If a modern counterfeit, they will produce more once they have the die. I understand. That is why I didn't see much in the local (coin or antique) market.
Samuel Tan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2009, 12:18:19 AM »
That is correct. There are many such old forgeries. By some estimates, over 50% of the copper coins in circulation were forgeries.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 12:28:02 AM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2009, 12:49:00 AM »
Here is my worst contemporary forgery: Ned Ind 1/4 St 1826 S. This year was also forged by the Singapore merchants issues, perhaps a forgery of a forgery ... But in cast brass.

Afrasi

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2009, 02:22:33 PM »
Here is my worst contemporary forgery of an NEI coin. I am very proud of it, as I consider it a forerunner of the 2 euro stick-man design :D

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2009, 06:59:06 PM »
I don't know what or who "stick man" is. But my first thought was the "pink panther".  ;D

Offline a3v1

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2009, 09:28:37 PM »
I don't know what or who "stick man" is. But my first thought was the "pink panther".  ;D
Alexander,
"Stick man" is depicted on the 2 Euro commemoratives 2009 dedicated to the 10th anniversary of the Euro.
Regards,
a3v1
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2009, 03:28:56 PM »
This pink panther or "stick man" is a nice piece and hard to top. But I tried my best.  ;D

Here comes the cock token in the same "home and hand made" style:

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2009, 03:57:42 PM »
Hilarious! Too few coins have a sense of humor.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline sinial

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2009, 05:18:58 PM »
pink panther, really good idea  ;D

Offline Figleaf

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Plantation token
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 02:35:27 PM »
The triangle shaped coin (Tanah Radja) with the three holes in it I like the most.

Agreed. A very interesting piece. Lansen says that the three holes were made so that three pins could be run through them. In fact, two holes and pins would have been sufficient.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:58:20 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline kriyasa

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2011, 08:36:22 AM »
Here is my worst contemporary forgery of an NEI coin. I am very proud of it, as I consider it a forerunner of the 2 euro stick-man design :D

Peter

This is hilarious,

but could some one explain the logic behind imitating these kind of coins? I mean the price of the real coin is not significant in the market.

So are they really local imitation coins or the dutch and french are really lack of good coins at that time?

Regards,

Offline thelawnet

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2011, 12:51:59 PM »
This is hilarious,

but could some one explain the logic behind imitating these kind of coins? I mean the price of the real coin is not significant in the market.

So are they really local imitation coins or the dutch and french are really lack of good coins at that time?


They are contemporary fakes, and obviously profitable to produce at the time, given reasonable quantity, given the NEI duit was worth 1/4 of a silver stuiver against the Dutch duit worth 1/8th; i.e. you could for instance buy a quantity of raw copper using silver coins, and produce a quantity of copper duits valued much higher in silver terms than the raw copper would be.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:01:49 PM by thelawnet »