Author Topic: Fake coins of the Netherlands and its colonies  (Read 15153 times)

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Offline thelawnet

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2009, 04:16:37 AM »
Thanks thelawnet. The images were helpful. I hadn't thought about tin. That seems like a distinct possibility.
As for NET.. apart from the last three letters in your on line name, I have not a clue.
richie

It's odd looks like there is an L there too. That would be LN.

NEI is Netherlands East Indies, but I think that is a British usage?

translateltd

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2009, 05:36:34 AM »
Turn the "NEI" side upside down and you get LN (high serif ending the L) and a star underneath - does that help?


Offline Rangnath

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 04:50:59 PM »
That is certainly interesting Martin.  I'll post a close up of "Java and date" and a better image of the letters; right side up and up side down. 
If I include both, one has to be right!
richie

Offline RVCOINS

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 10:06:08 PM »
I think that this Java duit is a imitation made by the locals.

The local people can not read letter and put it up side down.

RVCOINS   

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 10:46:31 PM »
I agree. Contemporary counterfeit. I find those blundered counterfeits very interesting.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2009, 03:18:22 AM »
I agree with RVCoins and with Figleaf.  I attempted to change the subject heading to relect this but I think it a bit inelegant.  Anyone have a better suggestion?
richie

Offline thelawnet

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2009, 03:21:45 AM »
I agree with RVCoins and with Figleaf.  I attempted to change the subject heading to relect this but I think it a bit inelegant.  Anyone have a better suggestion?
richie

better?

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2009, 06:16:37 AM »
Well thelawnet, after comparing my coin witht the Km 223 that you posted, "crude" seems an appropriate term. 
Does this mean that my coin is not a major find?
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2009, 12:56:16 PM »
Your piece is not interesting as an unlisted coin variety, it is interesting as a fantastically blundered fake. I looks like it circulated, so it gives you some insight in how urgent the need for copper money was during the French occupation. It was bad enough at peace time when Japanese copper could be imported, it must have been really bad while the British Royal Navy was prowling the Malacca Straits.

Just for perspective: most coins of this period are weakly struck and look poor. The coin thelawnet shows is of exceptional quality.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline thelawnet

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 01:19:41 PM »
Your piece is not interesting as an unlisted coin variety, it is interesting as a fantastically blundered fake. I looks like it circulated, so it gives you some insight in how urgent the need for copper money was during the French occupation. It was bad enough at peace time when Japanese copper could be imported, it must have been really bad while the British Royal Navy was prowling the Malacca Straits.

Just for perspective: most coins of this period are weakly struck and look poor. The coin thelawnet shows is of exceptional quality.


Here's another of a different year, also in good condition, but not so nice. The dies were clearly very variable - the letters etc. are different shapes and position very different:




Offline Figleaf

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 01:54:16 PM »
Many if not most copper coins struck on the islands more or less have the character of emergency issues. The dies were engraved by hand by less than skilled engravers and machinery was lacking or of inferior technology. The silver was of better quality and that's no coincidence. The colonial authorities thought of copper and silver in wholly different terms. This is shown not just by repeatedly getting the price of silver in terms of copper wrong, causing silver to disappear from circulation, but also by the fact that there were separate "mints" for silver and copper coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

BC Numismatics

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2009, 11:45:27 PM »
I reckon that the contemporary forgeries are worth collecting,as they were struck with the intention of filling a coin shortage.

A similar thing occurred in Canada,especially with the Nova Scotian coins dated 1832,in which contemporary forgeries were struck,& some of the dies were incorrectly dated '1382'.These error date contemporary forgeries command a huge price,especially in Canada.

Aidan.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 12:06:59 AM »
The "contemporary forgeries" of such as British halfpennies of the 1770's are a much better example of this, they come in a great variety (including many strange legends and portraits) and can be worth lots more than the real pieces.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

BC Numismatics

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 12:11:00 AM »
Paul,
  The Farthing forgeries are far harder to find than the Halfpenny forgeries are.

Aidan.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Louis Napoleon duit (Netherlands Indies) - crude contemporary fake
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 12:22:29 AM »
Yes - that is why I gave the halfpennies as an example and not the farthings.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker