Author Topic: Afghanistan civic copper of Herat  (Read 1833 times)

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Offline saro

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Afghanistan civic copper of Herat
« on: August 09, 2014, 09:58:55 AM »
I have this copper coin with me since a long time; it is of a typical afghan style and shows "zarb Farah", a mintname which seems not reported for civic afghan coppers ???
Farah is a city located in West of Afghanistan (32°30'37" N / 62°07'10" E) and was a minor stop on silk road.
The city falled under control of Barakzaï in 1862 and I think that this falus was struck in these years.

diam. 16mm / 3,73g
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 01:33:48 PM by saro »
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 11:21:03 AM »
Another new discovery if indeed it's an unlisted mint, Stan Goron is very interested in Afghan coins & would probably like to see a photo of your coin
Vic

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 11:59:17 AM »
I am thinking of a field mint. This is a mobile mint (probably not much more than an oven, an anvil and an impressive hammer) that comes along with an army, so that petty labour (digging nasty tunnels underneath city walls, collecting firewood, chopping wood for siege ladders) can be paid cash. Indian moghuls had them, so why not Afghan lords?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 12:37:47 PM »
a little like french fries trucks on holidays roads ?... ;D
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 02:02:29 PM »
Indeed! The old tourist were also ill-mannered, but armed in addition.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 11:45:38 AM »
With the help of Vic who posted this coin on FB, we have to read the mintname as "Herat" which is written in this manner on safavids coins.
however I am not 100% conviced...as there is something else written on left.
The mintname is included in a cartouche of which the left half part is unfortunately needed but shows "ba".
It could be an epithet? (baldat ? ) or something else ?

I join a sketch and any other suggestion is welcome.






« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 04:23:39 PM by saro »
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Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 03:06:48 PM »
I have found "Herat" written in 2 different manners on a timurid tanka of Hosayn Bayqara and on a safavid coin of Ismaïl I (both nearly in years 900 AH)
"bah bud Herat" for the timurid with "H" written like a "F" / classical "H" for the safavid

Herat is certain, still remain to learn about the 2nd part of the legend...
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 03:21:39 PM »
I'm still confused but with my basic reading skills I can't work out why the word has a 'H' at the end which presumably makes it look like Farah or indeed Herah  ???

I can see two ways to spell Herat in KM so that where the confusion is - the two dots for the 'T' ar missing in all cases
Vic

Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 06:47:41 PM »
Yes it's very confusing to have the letter "H" written like F and in addition the dots absent...
May be that was in use at a time in some eastern provinces?
I have read that in old times it was impolite to write to somebody putting the diacritical dots on the letters : that could mean that you thought that this person didn't possess a sufficiant knowledge to be able to distinguish the good way of reading !

They haven't had a thought to the today poor numismatists  ;D

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Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Farah, a new mint?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2014, 09:51:43 AM »
In addition to Vic's last post, "Herat" is also written in 2 other manners noticed on afghan coins:
left: on a sunface falus
right: on some Barakzaï rupees
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Offline THCoins

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Herat
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 07:39:45 PM »
Old thread, but looking for something else, i was struck by the similarity between the cartouche on your coin and this one here.
Might provide a different direction for attribution ?

Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Herat
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 11:11:25 PM »
Thank you Anthony; the cartouche of your link is clearly "zarb baldat Balkh", and my 1st post: "zarb Herat" : no ambiguity for me now, even if Herat is written in an unusual manner.
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Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan civic copper of Herat
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 09:13:38 AM »
from your post, Anthony, "Baldat" could be well the missing word on left part of the cartouche; thank you once more :)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)