Groningen, butken 1600

Started by Michiel, August 05, 2014, 05:13:02 PM

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Michiel

0,80 gram
19 mm

in the 4 quadrants i see an A, S and a O   (EDIT, it must be S P Q)
on the other side an eagle in a shield (i thinkk)

Figleaf

I haven't found this type, but it sure looks like Southern Netherlands. Here is what I see.

obv: crowned arms with round bottom, spread eagle in field. Legend starts with N.

rev: (pic should be turned about 135° clockwise) cross, breaking through a pearl circle, with open centre, small arms in centre (possibly the mintmark of Mechelen, Leuven or Luxembourg). Arms of the cross consist of three curls, bound near the centre. Between the arms S P Q x. (This reminds me of the rebellion coins of Gent, that had SPQG, but they are of a different type). Legend: SIT / NO.D / OM.B / ENE - SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTUM - the name of the lord be blessed. This is the motto of the kings of France, but I can't remember that cross on a French coin.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Michiel

Hi peter (and others), my first idea was also france, but the eagle.....

the last time I founded an eagle it was an unknown friesland butken that made it in the new cnm (if tom and jan can finish it)
lets hope this time i made an nice found again :)

Michiel

for the silver coins from the zuidelijke nederlanden, i don't have an good catalog. But what about the link to "thorn"?

Figleaf

In general, the coins of Thorn imitate the coins of the Spanish Netherlands (Spanish Habsburg arms and Burgundy cross, but they do use the motto of the kings of France, which is of a religious character. There are exceptions, but I cannot think of one with the spread eagle alone, rather than as (part of) a quarter. It seems quite unlikely that a convent would use the worldly expression S P Q (R?).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.


Michiel

Yes, its an butken (again  ;) ) groningen 160x (it looks like an 1606, but that year is not possible)
verkade 187.4 according the zonnebloem catalog

Figleaf

That solves it quite nicely. So it's S P Q G. G for the city of Groningen, not to be confused with the province of Groningen and Ommelanden, now the province of Groningen, whose coins are comparatively easier to find. This type is practically impossible to get in nice condition. The legend on the arms side can be reconstructed as MONETA.NOVA.GRONINGE and the J mentioned on the scan below (from Catalogus van de Nederlandse munten by Tom Passon, Apeldoorn 2006 is actually a crumpled up ½.

I think the date (first post, upper picture, 3 o'clock) is 1600.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Michiel

Quote from: Figleaf on August 07, 2014, 12:22:41 PM
That solves it quite nicely. So it's S P Q G. G for the city of Groningen, not to be confused with the province of Groningen and Ommelanden, now the province of Groningen, whose coins are comparatively easier to find. This type is practically impossible to get in nice condition. The legend on the arms side can be reconstructed as MONETA.NOVA.GRONING and the J mentioned on the scan below (from Catalogus van de Nederlandse munten by Tom Passon, Apeldoorn 2006 is actually a crumpled up ½.

I think the date (first post, upper picture, 3 o'clock) is 1600.

Peter


Funny, in krause (km10) its 1604 - 1649, in de zonnebloem its also 1604-1649. In the verkade its also 1604-1649.

Than you get the cnm2 and than its 1600-1649. on the muntbodemvondsten forum the idea was also that 1600 was possible with my coin. I put your scan there if you dont mind

but thanks for looking. its now really clear. it must be 1600