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Author Topic: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan  (Read 2376 times)

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Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2017, 06:29:45 PM »
Continuation

3. Forgery, Sino-Tibetan, Jia Qing, Sho, CD 25 (1820), KM C#83.1  (3.7 gr, 25.4 mm).
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2017, 06:35:06 PM »
Continuation

4. Forgery, Sino-Tibetan, Qian Long, Sho, CD 59 (1794), KM C#72.1  (3.75 gr, 25.2 mm).

5. Forgery, Sino-Tibetan, Qian Long, Sho, CD 59 (1794), KM C#72.1 (3.7 gr, 25.2 mm).
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2017, 06:40:35 PM »
Continuation

6. Forgery, Sino-Tibetan, Dao Guang, Sho, CD 2 (1822), KM C#93  (3.7 gr, 25.3 mm)

7. Forgery, Sino-Tibetan, Dao Guang, Sho, CD 3 (1823), KM C#93 (3.75 gr, 27.3 mm)
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2017, 06:57:29 PM »
Could you explain for those who are not experts how you can tell that these are fakes?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2017, 06:49:58 PM »
Could you explain for those who are not experts how you can tell that these are fakes?

Peter

Of course, I am ready to do this. I will try to write what I see.
I hope other experts will also participate.

I have several rules for evaluating counterfeit coins.

1. Coin parameters (weight, diameter, etc.).
Suspicion causes the deviation of parameters in any direction.

2. Comparison with the original.
It is necessary to use as many original coins as possible. This is the most important rule.

3. The pedigree of the coin.
But we must understand that a good pedigree can not give a 100% guarantee.

4. Information about the seller.
In modern conditions of accessibility of information this is a very important indicator.
In the card game Preference there is a rule - "Misers" come in pairs. :)
Also, a dishonest seller often sells several fakes at once.

5. It's hard for me to describe it.

6. Intuition.
This is top class aerobatics for an expert.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2017, 06:52:44 PM »
Coin number 1. Forgery, China-Tibet, Sichuan 1/2 Rupee, ND, KM Y#2 (5.3 gr, 23.9 mm).

Very rare type. See the photo (bottom - original).

The weight of the standard coin is 5.6-5.8. Fake has 5.3 and this is suspicious.
Obverse the coin.
- on the ornament of clothing there are 7 elements missing.
- pigtail has a careless appearance.
- the lines on the top of this type of headgear are not positioned correctly.
Reverse.
- the inscription "si chuan sheng zao" (made in Sichuan) has a calligraphy error.
- elements of the ornament very roughly copy the standard ornament.
- 50% of the points located on the edge have defects.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2017, 08:02:32 AM »
Great stuff, Gusev. Your last point was actually the one that struck me first: the edge pearls are wrong. From there on, you start comparing. What I find difficult is that there are multiple dies, all different, so I may compare with the wrong genuine die. Maybe it takes an expert after all...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2017, 06:06:17 PM »
Thank you, Peter.

The last point is not the most important. This error occurs when minting on an unbalanced machine. With the official coinage, such coins are almost always rejected.
The remaining mistakes were made by the engraver when making the die.

All types and varieties of Szechuan rupees are found in the book:
Z.W. Sheng, T.H. Qiu, Z.M. Cong, W.T. Fu "Szechuan Rupee", 2011, In Chinese.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Petrus

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2017, 11:14:26 PM »
If a coin is rare and valuable, the chinese will make replica's:
https://www.thespruce.com/chinese-coin-counterfeiting-ring-4071202

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »
eBay
Seller: 2010alex2007

Bhutan, Ma-tam (modern forgery KM#20)
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2017, 08:57:50 PM »
Alex is a pest. Why are people still buying from him?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Fake coins of Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Szechuan
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2017, 04:13:18 PM »
Alex is a pest. Why are people still buying from him?

Peter
Top-rated seller
2010alex2007 (977 )
100% Positive feedback


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"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.