Author Topic: Nederlands Indie? (2)  (Read 4396 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Afrasi

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2 602
  • To do is to doo be dooh ...
Nederlands Indie? (2)
« on: January 17, 2009, 06:36:03 PM »
Hello!

One more strange coin from this area:



Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31 567
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 07:11:09 PM »
The plantation tokens thread has reminded me forcefully that plenty of fantasies and imitations come out of South East Asia, to the point where the large majority of the coins offered from Indonesia are fakes or concoctions. You have to know and trust your seller.

Having said that, the host coin is a Dutch or (more probably) a VOC duit, counterstamped with a device that reminds me of the "tampok manggis" (mango rosette) of Perak (now part of Malaysia).

This is unlikely to be a discovery token, but it may be a hitherto unlisted private counterstamp.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 07:13:22 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline thelawnet

  • AC/DC Numismatist.
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 11:38:40 PM »
Hello!

One more strange coin from this area:


Do you have the other side of the coin? Why is it labelled 1954?

Offline thelawnet

  • AC/DC Numismatist.
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 12:07:23 AM »
The plantation tokens thread has reminded me forcefully that plenty of fantasies and imitations come out of South East Asia, to the point where the large majority of the coins offered from Indonesia are fakes or concoctions. You have to know and trust your seller.

Meh.

The large majority of coins being offered from Indonesia are worn duits and other coppers, which were counterfeited at the time, but not I think now, because they are worth so little and are so numerous. Those plantation tokens came from Malaysia. A lot of fakes actually come from there, and, especially, Singapore. I rarely see anything of interest from either country, but they do have a significant amount of counterfeit material (which is less common from Indonesian sellers).

Quote
Having said that, the host coin is a Dutch or (more probably) a VOC duit, counterstamped with a device that reminds me of the "tampok manggis" (mango rosette) of Perak (now part of Malaysia).

I think the filename states what it is, a Zeeland duit, or an imitation of it, as you can see the swimming lion. I don't follow the home Zeeland duits, but I had a quick look and they seem to have edge inscriptions and other devices that mean this is a VOC duit.

The most interesting thing about the VOC duits is that they had twice the value of Dutch ones = profit for the VOC.

Also the VOC was a trading organisation, and they certainly did not 'govern' the entirety of what became the East Indies. It is possible to see that local rulers could decide to counterstamp them to stop their unlicensed import. I'm not entirely sure about this coin though. It looks a little 'off'.

Rather than being raised high points, the details on this coin looks to be LOW points, lower than the rest of the coin.

Quote
This is unlikely to be a discovery token, but it may be a hitherto unlisted private counterstamp.

Here are some VOC Zeeland duits, in various states of preservation for comparison.





« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 12:10:45 AM by thelawnet »

Offline Afrasi

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2 602
  • To do is to doo be dooh ...
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 02:09:12 PM »
Thanks for all replies! The coin is 1754. 1954 was a mistyping while scanning the coin.

Afrasi

Offline Berani

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • Plantation tokens from all over the world
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 01:42:02 PM »
Here is an other VOC-duit with the same type of countermark  :)

Offline Berani

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • Plantation tokens from all over the world
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 01:46:34 PM »

Having said that, the host coin is a Dutch or (more probably) a VOC duit, counterstamped with a device that reminds me of the "tampok manggis" (mango rosette) of Perak (now part of Malaysia).

Peter

hello Peter, do you have a picture/scan of he "tampok manggis" (mango rosette)?

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31 567
Re: Nederlands Indie? (2)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 10:14:33 AM »
Perak is speculation, based on the fact that the pattern of the counterstamp is used on almost all local tin pagodas and pitis, even though the execution differs vastly, from 4 to ten leaves and from simple lines to decorated leaves. See Saran Singh, Perak 21-40a en 71-81. Saran Singh does not mention this counterstamp.

Here is an example of a tin pagoda with a decoration that looks a lot like your counterstamp.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.