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Notgeld - Ersatz Money and Souvenir

Started by chrisild, May 21, 2014, 05:13:24 PM

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chrisild

(This topic has its origin here so to say ...)

The attached image from notgeld.sewera.pl shows a notgeld piece from Altenburg where the Skat game is from. It shows a king and an acorn (which equals clubs), a reference to the game. Close but no cigar, I think.

Christian

<k>

Yes, borderline - not a playing card but (allegedly) a detail from one, and not an official coin, though Figleaf would accept it as being on a par with one, since it could presumably be spent.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

It wasn't meant or made to be spent, sold above face value and I have never seen a worn token of this series. There are of course plenty of tokens and casino chips with such symbols.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

<k>

But a Notgeld piece is "emergency money", which is by definition meant to be spent. If it was never spent, then it can't have been Notgeld.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

chrisild

Some porcelain coins from the early 1920s actually circulated; think of the Saxony 20 Pf to 2 M pieces. They had mintages of more than 500,000. I don't know whether (or to what extent) those Altenburg pieces circulated. What we do know is that the Westfalen "coins", for example (which even say "Notgeld"), were not minted for circulation but for fundraising. Also, most of those colorful paper money issues were made for collectors. Not geld, so to say. ;)

Christian

<k>

Quote from: chrisild on May 22, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
Some porcelain coins from the early 1920s actually circulated; think of the Saxony 20 Pf to 2 M pieces.

I can't because I don't know them.

Quote from: chrisild on May 22, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
I don't know whether (or to what extent) those Altenburg pieces circulated. What we do know is that the Westfalen "coins"...

Altenburg is in Thüringen (Thuringia) - still spelt with "th", even though the Germans have forgotten how to lisp - while Westphalia is a couple of states further West.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

Quote from: <k> on May 21, 2014, 11:40:06 PM
But a Notgeld piece is "emergency money", which is by definition meant to be spent. If it was never spent, then it can't have been Notgeld.

Honesty (lunaria annua) is called judaspenning (Judas' silverlings) in Dutch. Yet, it can't be spent (and isn't a virtue or a vice). What's in a name, Mr. Capulet?

Quote from: <k> on May 22, 2014, 11:24:37 AM
Westphalia is a couple of states further West.

The Westfalen pieces are discussed extensively here. They are mentioned by way of an example of pieces that say notgeld, yet could not be spent.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

chrisild

The porcelain notgeld pieces from Saxony had low mintages in 1920 (around 4,000 only per denomination), but the 1921 figures are quite different:

20 Pfennig: 641,000
50 Pf: 493,000
1 Mark: 546,000
2 Mk: 576,000

The three higher denominations have lower mintages again:
5 Mark: 72,000
10 Mk: 74,000
20 Mk: 67,000

Again, whether the Altenburg pieces circulated, I don't know - quite possibly they were made for collectors. The Saxony coins did circulate to some extent. Problem is they were not durable enough, and (after a short while) obsolete due to the inflation anyway.

Thüringen/Thuringia was "brand new" when those Altenburg pieces were made (the state was founded in May 1920). And Westfalen/Westphalia was not a state but part of Prussia when their notgeld came out. It became part of Nordrhein-Westfalen when NW was founded in 1946 ...

Christian