Author Topic: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds  (Read 1070 times)

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Online malj1

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Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« on: May 11, 2014, 06:28:39 AM »
HELMSMAN BURY ST EDMUNDS SUFFOLK ENGLAND rev. LOCKER TOKEN brass 22.9mm.

There are several varieties and sizes of this token. This one is counter-marked JS for John Sainsbury with # 482 on the reverse. Listed as Hayes 187.5

For more on John Sainsbury see our J. Sainsbury and Guinea

Helmsman is a leading manufacturer, supplier, and installer of lockers, benching, cubicles & Shelving located in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline ZYV

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 11:40:13 AM »
Dear malj1, please, tell:
who used these tokens?

Why not kee, but token was used with locker?
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Online malj1

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 12:00:11 PM »
Dear malj1, please, tell:
who used these tokens?

Why not kee, but token was used with locker?

Used by anyone that would purchase the lockers. for instance Sainsbury's were a big buyer and user but apparently they are not using them now as many of their tokens have been for sale on eBay for some time. Tesco was another big user.

 
Coin Lock                   Locking types include keyed, coin/token -operated.

I don't understand how the coin/token locks work! ???


Malcolm
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Offline ZYV

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 12:07:39 PM »
Thank you for the answer.
So a token was used instead of a key.  :o
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Online malj1

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 12:22:45 PM »
These varieties have been noted of the large 30mm token.

The first has a round "O" in Suffolk while the second has an oval "0"

The letter "E" also differs in that the centre bar is shorter in the second token in every instance.

The letter "G" is missing the vertical leg in the second example.
Malcolm
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 12:24:30 PM »
Both a token (or coin) and a key are needed.

You find an empty locker (one with a key in the lock), put your stuff in, and put a coin or token in the slot in the inside of the locker door (in Mal's illustration, it requires a £1 coin). You close the door, turn the key and remove it. The coin/token drops through the slot, activating the locking mechanism. If there is no coin, either the lock doesn't activate or it is impossible to remove the key from the lock when it is in the locked position.

When you want to retrieve your belongings, you unlock the door with the key. In my experience, most lockers give you your coin/token back - after passing through the mechanism it comes to rest in a tray underneath. Some retain the coin/token in an internal box which is periodically emptied by personnel.

There are two advantages to using tokens rather than coins. Firstly, the operator is not at the whim of the government's decisions to change the characteristics of the coins in circulation. Secondly, specifically with lockers that retain the payment rather than returning it as a deposit, it is more secure, as tokens are less attractive to thieves. There is likely to be less vandalism of lockers in situ, and the working conditions of the staff who empty the lockers of tokens are safer. On the negative side, you have to get a bunch of tokens made up and you have to have some additional process in place to convert people's cash into tokens - either a machine or a person.

Large users of lockers in places with a lot of travellers, e.g. railway station left luggage facilities, are IME moving over to an entirely coin/token-less operation. Oslo central station has a system where you pay at a central terminal and get a PIN code to open the locker with.

Online malj1

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 12:33:32 PM »
Thank you! it had puzzled me for a while but your explanation fits what I surmised would have to be the case.

Apart from Helmsman there are several other locker companies using their own tokens too. No doubt lockers would be sold with a batch of tokens to suit.

Come to think of it I've not used a locker since 1973 when I left the government job that I had.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 01:35:13 PM »
The system described above is alive and well in many smaller European museums. They don't want you wandering around with rucksacks and coats because you may knock the displays, but equally they don't consider themselves enough of a terrorist target to warrant the kind of staffed bag search / xray system that you get in e.g. the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam or St Peter's in Rome. But all the lockers I have used in the last couple of years (in Italy, the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden) have used coins (10 kronor or 1 euro is normal), and all of them give you your coin back.

Back in my schooldays, the local swimming pool had small and large lockers - more of the former and rather few of the latter. Both took shillings/large 5 pence coins, but the small lockers gave you your coin back while the large ones kept it. They didn't seem to grasp what was immediately obvious to a cash-strapped schoolboy, that if you had too much stuff to fit in one small locker, you just used two instead.  ;D

Offline ZYV

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 02:52:46 PM »
Dear FosseWay, thank you very much!
The story is very interesting!
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline ZYV

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 03:21:34 PM »
In Soviet Union and post-Soviet states were used many tokens for automatic storage rooms (автоматических камер хранения) in railway stations.
Here are some examples. 
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 03:30:19 PM »
I have a token with a similar purpose from Copenhagen central station. There are also a number of tokens around with the letters BR (for British Rail), but no other text. I don't know whether these were car park tokens or left luggage locker tokens.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 03:34:35 PM »
@ZYV: Which city is the first of your tokens from? I presume ЮЖД = Южная Железная Дорога, Southern Railway, but I can't make sense of ДОП4.

Offline ZYV

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 03:39:28 PM »
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 03:48:57 PM »
Thank you  :)

Offline Henk

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Re: Helmsman Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 05:40:06 PM »
Sunday I paid a visit to the museum in Dordrecht. Asking about the location of the lockers I was offered a token to use instead a coin. This token was quite simply just a brass planchet with a rim with the same diameter as a 2€ coin. I was also asked to return the token after use which I quite forget! There were two slots in the lockers one for 1€ coins and the other for 2€ coins.

In the National Archives in Den Haag there is a box on top of the lockers containing plastic tokens to use. These are the size of 1€ coins.

I never use a coin, or a token for lockers but a simple washer, the size of a 1€ coin. This of course cannot be spent so I always have a "coin" available. This washer also works perfectly well in supermarket trolleys.

I think coins or tokens are used either as payment, in which case they are not returned after use or as a kind of assurance that the key is returned in the locker just as coins, or tokens, have to be used to obtain a trolley in a supermarket. The disadvantage of this system is that if the user does not have a coin available or has to obtain a token, the cashier will be bothered to provide one. This probably is the reason to provide tokens for free. Of course in that case the use of coins/tokens could be dispensed with but this would need a change of the locking mechanism. I think an extra assurance to return the locker key is not really needed as something has been put in the locker which one certainly would want to retrieve. I know of one location in the Netherlands where no token or coin is needed and where one can simply turn the key and take it out.

Note: Obverse and reverse of the illustrated tokens are identical