Author Topic: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33  (Read 5990 times)

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Offline Quant.Geek

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French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« on: October 31, 2012, 11:42:11 PM »
French India - Pondichery Cache

KM #33

Obv: Fleur-de-lis
Rev: Pudu / tche / ri in Tamil  (புதுசசெரி)



« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:11:36 PM by Quant.Geek »
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 04:24:19 PM »
I must admit I am struggling with the characters (not the coin; I know how hard it is to get them this good). So far, I found two. The combination of the heraldic lily and the Tamil characters is great fun.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 05:34:17 PM »
I must admit I am struggling with the characters (not the coin; I know how hard it is to get them this good). So far, I found two. The combination of the heraldic lily and the Tamil characters is great fun.

Peter

Actually, it is said that ENGLISH is the hardest language to learn as there are so many exceptions to the language.  Tamil, like Spanish, is read the same way as you pronounce the letters.  So, the characters are actually a combination of vowels and consonants.  This is from a guy whose first and primary language was English.  Even though I can speak Tamil, I learned to read by myself (writing is a totally different story  :)).  These coins almost always have a partial script in them.  Extremely difficult to get coins with a full script.  Pondichery is actually Puducherry, which is the actual name and hence that is what is depicted on the coin.  The 1/2 Doudou I posted earlier (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,18237.msg124011.html) has a better first and second line.  You can compare the script to what I have posted below.  Pondicherry went through a name change in 2006 back to its original name of Puducherry.

First Line:

பு is Pu
து is du (or thu)

Second Line:

is ch really should be ச்
செ is che really should be சே

The combination of சசெ produces a hard che sound.

Third Line:

ரி is ri

Altogether, it says puduchery (புதுசசெரி or in actual modern Tamil (புதுச்சேரி)

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 08:42:40 PM by Quant.Geek »
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 06:23:09 PM »
That helped. Got a connection between the characters and what's on the coin and between the characters and the sounds.

My only coin from Pondicheri is a cash 1693-1698. The text side is similar to the French coin, but on the other side is the Kali. I did not succeed in making a decent picture of it, so I am borrowing a picture of a similar coin from the net.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 06:40:24 PM »
That helped. Got a connection between the characters and what's on the coin and between the characters and the sounds.

The only way to learn the characters and the sounds is to get the MATRIX.  It contains the combination of all the vowels and consonants that make a particular letter in Tamil.  Quite easy to learn once you know the combinations and there aren't really that many as it makes a simple pattern after awhile.  See the following pictures in the links below.  The vowels are on the first row and the consonants are on the first column going down.  Each combination makes a unique letter / sound that gets concatenated together to form a word.  Can't be simpler than that (for the most part, there are some whacky exceptions in the pronunciations like what I mentioned before with ச்சே):

http://tamilkutti.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tamilabc12.png
http://tamilkutti.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tamilabc34.png
http://tamilkutti.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tamilabc56.png

The cache seems to be more like a coin from Nagapattinam instead of Pondy.  But I know the coin you are talking about..That one is missing from my collection.  Trying to find a really nice one, but it is hard to find them is a good condition...

Cheers,

Ram
A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins

Offline @josephjk

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 06:53:38 PM »
That helped. Got a connection between the characters and what's on the coin and between the characters and the sounds.

My only coin from Pondicheri is a cash 1693-1698. The text side is similar to the French coin, but on the other side is the Kali. I did not succeed in making a decent picture of it, so I am borrowing a picture of a similar coin from the net.

Peter

Strange that looks so much like this Travancore Viraraya Fanam - I guess that was the inspiration for the Travancore coin  that came much later in 1881 and they both came from South India

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 09:57:17 PM »
Oesho posted some of these Dutch Cache from Pondicherry here:

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,5165.msg32127.html#msg32127

They are some of the most exquisite examples of these types of coins I have seen anywhere.  The details are just outstanding...


Ram
A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins

Offline Figleaf

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Re: French India Pondichery Cache KM#33
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 11:23:32 PM »
@QG: Well spotted. It is Negapatnam (Scholten's spelling). It is pretty similar to the Pondicheri coin, though. You may want to have a look at item 1257 here.

@josephjk: if you think that looks alike, have a look at this fanam struck in Tuticorin by the same issuer: the Verenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie (VOC) of the Netherlands. Sorry for the quality. I can't get my scanner to handle small coins correctly.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.