Author Topic: BE 2015: Waterloo  (Read 8660 times)

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Offline Prosit

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2015, 01:49:51 PM »
Sounds to me like a good subject for a poll

Dale


Another silly generalisation. Have you interviewed "most people" ?

Offline <k>

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2015, 01:49:54 PM »
I'm certainly not looking for a fight. I'm asking you to think logically and give a basis for your opinion, which rests on shallow foundations.
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Offline Pabitra

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2015, 05:10:04 PM »
French exiled Napoleon but do not want others to remember his defeat?

Offline chrisild

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2015, 11:02:09 PM »
If you like to, post all kinds of Napoleon/Waterloo related coins with QEII's effigy here. I thought this forum was about "Circulation and commemorative euro coins" ... ;)

Christian

Online Figleaf

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2015, 09:13:05 AM »
A better course would be to give us your assessment of Napoleon. He is a controversial figure.

Interesting question. I'll give it a try.

Like all real people, Napoléon had good sides and bad sides. On the bad side, he is responsible for more French dead than any other Frenchmen. He caused great suffering when taking his Grande Armée towards, into and out of Russia. As head of state, he was responsible for the unspeakably horrible atrocities and looting committed by the French army in Spain and Portugal. While he lost few battles he led personally, I think he relied too much on one tactic. When Wellington caught up with his technology, Napoléon did not adapt.

On the good side, the body of law known as the code Napoléon is still the basis of most law systems (excluding Anglo-Saxon countries). He took the Franc de Germinal from distrusted reform coin status to the only realistic alternative to the British pound. His patronage of neo-classical art was an important impulse to art for generations. It took generations before Britain and Prussia could match French diplomacy (Talleyrand).

On the military side, his system of promotion by merit, even though it was polluted by who-do-you-know in practice, was hugely better than buying rank (the British system up to colonel) or rank by birth (the German system). His appreciation for common soldiers was in stark contrast with Wellington's disdain of them and Blücher's detachment. France had neither the upstairs-downstairs society in Britain, nor the stultifying, self-righteous worship of duty in Prussia. Napoléon's speechifying beat Wellington and especially Blücher by miles.

Taking it all together, I think you may conclude that Napoléon's lasting importance was civil, rather than military (draw your own conclusions on how I rate the above coin issues.) Before, there were two strands of politics: conservative (royal sovereignty) and liberal (sovereignty of the people). His third way may be described as proto-nationalist (society before individual). It would take Karl Marx to provide an alternative (class justice before individual).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline <k>

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 10:21:47 AM »
Nicely summed up, Figleaf. Incidentally, I understand that parts of Scottish law are based on Continental law, which is why it is separate from English law.

For me, one of Napoleon's biggest legacies is in South America. After he deposed the Spanish and Portuguese royal families, history in Latin America went into top gear, and local republics were established almost everywhere.
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Offline eurocoin

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 08:18:44 PM »
Today I received the original letter that France wrote to the Council of the European Union, it can be seen here (on my Dropbox account). I didn't receive any documents regarding the proposed 2 euro commemorative coin "Battle of Marignano" yet but I expect to get these soon.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 05:30:48 PM by eurocoin »

Offline Manfred1

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2017, 01:28:07 PM »
Since the "battle" on W.o.C was won and lost ... let us remember the fallen coin comrades ...

Nooooo don't start all over again ... close enough to WW3 as is ...

In 2015 Belgium issued the 2 Euro commemorative issue for the Anniversary of the European Flag ...

   

Online Figleaf

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Re: BE 2015: Waterloo
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2017, 01:52:03 PM »
Good point, Manfred. The very strongest argument for European integration is that it was designed to stop European war and did a good job halting war between EU members. However, history occurred and there is no point hiding or denying it.

Waterloo happened. In retrospect, its importance was political, rather than military: it set the stage for a struggle between conservatism, advocating a return to absolutism, liberalism, working for constitutions that would regulate the sovereignty of the people and communism, a dogma for the poor that would turn out to be unworkable in practice. That struggle ended up in a victory for democracy and defeat of absolutism as well as a highly deplorable detour into a "dictatorship of the proletariat".

In European terms, European integration celebrates that victory of democracy over dictatorship. The EU flag is an important symbol of that victory. Meanwhile, Waterloo is a point in history. Nothing less, but also nothing more.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.