Author Topic: New pound coins in 2017  (Read 89804 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2014, 12:00:36 PM »
It looks like two techniques. In one, a material (rare earth?) is added to the metal in such a way that the particles align regularly in the metal. The other involves plating, where particles (phosphor is a likely candidate) are spread over the surface of the coin (but in the metal) and can be seen under the right (UV?) light. In principle, it is also possible to apply multiple layers of plating, so that different patterns show up with wear and worn coins can be detected mechanically.

As a non-techie, I am immediately thinking of cost. The method seems energy intensive. If so, the cost of energy may make it non-viable or reduce it to a pseudo-coin gimmick in the future. Moreover, the economic damage done by forged coins is not a major issue. I'd like to see the technique applied in areas where the stakes are higher, e.g. airplane spare parts, hoping a patent wouldn't prevent that. As a coin collector, I am thinking of a great potential for new possible errors. That said (and keeping in mind that miscreants will inevitable catch up with the technique eventually), it looks like an interesting avenue to explore. It will take criminals by surprise and land some of them in prison - always satisfactory - and increase the trust people have in the coins they are using.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline davidrj

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2014, 12:37:01 PM »
One wonders whether they are paving the way for a future circulating £5 coin? Coins have a much longer life than paper, though I'm not sure of the trade off with polymer notes

David
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 01:03:41 PM by davidrj »

Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2014, 01:34:37 PM »
Back in the late 1980s, when the Royal Mint was considering changes to the coinage, it stated that it was not planning a 5 pound coin, and that we were talking a timescale during which the lower denominations became demonetised before that happened. Certainly, the penny and 2 pence coin are all but worthless now, when it is impossible to find anything to buy that costs less than 20 pence. Given the fact that a ten shilling note in the 1960s would probably buy as much as or more than 5 pounds today, a 5 pound coin would be a good idea.
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Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2014, 02:17:24 PM »
I found this question and answer on Facebook.

Paul: Will it be bigger than the current £1 coin or the same size as the old 3d coin?

The Royal Mint: Hi Paul - nothing has been finalised yet about the dimensions or spec of the new £1. The one that has been displayed is an initial prototype. How would you like it to look/what size should it be? Jo.



So the final weight, thickness and diameter have not been decided yet.
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Offline UK Decimal +

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2014, 02:02:05 AM »

My thoughts - perhaps it's time for a rethink on what coins will be needed in the near and not-so-near future.

Assuming that a £5 coin will soon be needed to replace the ever-more-scarce £5 notes, a new scale of coin weights is surely needed.

The present £5 is based on the Crown (that's 5/- or 25p depending on your age).   Because of the present dual value of apparently similar coins, the weight/size of a circulating £5 coin will have to be changed (unless the few 25p coins are treated in the same way as Maundy money and are accepted as their new (post-decimalisation) value as being £5).

We have £50, £20. £10 and £5 notes, alongside £2, £1, 50p, 20p, 10p, 5p ,2p,and 1p coins.   Are these suitable for the future?

Over to you!

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2014, 07:02:33 PM »
I don't think the similarity between crowns and £5 coins matters. There is no way on earth that a circulating £5 coin would be the same specifications as the existing commemoratives. Both crowns and £5 coins are currently legal tender for their respective amounts without there being a legal loophole requiring sellers to accept 25p coins as £5. The existing 25p and £5 coins could continue to be theoretically legal tender alongside the new circulating coins, just as AFAIK the thick monometallic £2 coins are, and for that matter the sovereign and its half and multiples and the double-florin.

As to having a wholesale reorganisation of the coinage... Well, it's never been done before in the UK, in the sense of replacing all circulating denominations at once or within a few years of each other. Silver was replaced wholesale in 1816, copper in 1860 and 1971 but in each case the "other" metal remained more or less untouched to provide some continuity. It clearly is possible though, as demonstrated by all the countries that have adopted the euro.

The obvious starting point is to withdraw the 1p and 2p and introduce a (usable) £5 coin. Doing the former frees up a "series" of possible specifications, so it would be sensible to make the 5p and 10p copper-coloured but probably about the same size as they are now. You could then go for either round or 7-sided silver-coloured 20p and 50p coins (personally I like the 7-sided coins and it would be a shame to lose that shape), bimetallic £1 and £2 and a shaped and bimetallic £5. I don't particularly see a need to change the specifications of the banknotes. We barely need a £50 IME, never mind a £100 note.

Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2014, 07:17:25 PM »
I like your ideas, but the current 10p is 24.5mm in diameter - way too large for its current value - compared to 18mm for the 5p. I would therefore reduce the 10p to around 21mm. Our coins are generally too large and heavy: pound coin too thick and heavy; 2 pound coin too wide. From this point of view, I prefer the euro system (shock, horror!). From the design point of view, smaller coins offer less scope, but utility and cost should take priority.
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Offline andyg

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2014, 07:30:49 PM »
1's and 2's, 5's and 10's; 20's and 50's can be paid in at the bank together in bags by weight, so the oddity is the current £1, which by this logic should be half £2.

<k> if we were to reduce the size of the 10p, the 5p would be really titchy, unless you plan to tell all those poor bankers that they have to employ more counters.  I guess they need to spend their profits on something though :)
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM »
<k> if we were to reduce the size of the 10p, the 5p would be really titchy

The 5p is already small, so I wouldn't change it. According to Royal Mint guidelines, a 3mm difference in diameter between similar coins is acceptable, but you mustn't go below that. Such a difference is easily discernible by sight and touch, so 18mm for the 5p and 21mm for the 10p would work perfectly.
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Offline andyg

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2014, 07:44:26 PM »
The 5p is already small, so I wouldn't change it. According to Royal Mint guidelines, a 3mm difference in diameter between similar coins is acceptable, but you mustn't go below that. Such a difference is easily discernible by sight and touch, so 18mm for the 5p and 21mm for the 10p would work perfectly.

It's the weight I was asking about - rather than the size, but I guess a 21mm 10p with the same weight as now would be fine if a little on the thick side!
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline andyg

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2014, 07:47:11 PM »
Double post -
https://www.facebook.com/DavidCameronOfficial/photos/a.658575084166813.1073741829.653092548048400/755330931157894/?type=1&theater

spot the fake pounds (there is at least one at the bottom of the pile front left, probably another halfway up the pile at the back....

(with thanks to another forum I read :))
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2014, 07:49:04 PM »
It's the weight I was asking about - rather than the size, but I guess a 21mm 10p with the same weight as now would be fine if a little on the thick side!

No, reduce its weight too. The idea that 10p should be twice the weight of 5p is outmoded, surely? Why shouldn't 5p and 10p coins get their own bags?
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Online <k>

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2014, 08:30:13 PM »
For comparison, here is the euro system (ignoring the 1 and 2 cents).

Diameter, weight, edge thickness, metal.

5c    21.25mm   3.92g   1.67mm   Smooth   Copper-plated steel

10c    19.75mm   4.10g   1.93mm   Shaped edge, fine scallops   Nordic gold

20c   22.25mm   5.74g   2.14mm   Plain   Nordic gold

50c   24.25mm   7.80g   2.38mm   Shaped edge, fine scallops   Nordic gold

1 Euro   23.25mm   7.50g   2.33mm   Interrupted milled   Nickel brass; copper-nickel-plated nickel

2 Euro   25.75mm   8.50g   2.20mm   Edge lettering, fine milled   Copper-nickel; Nickel brass-plated nickel


So there is no need for our 10p to be bigger than the 1 euro coin, which is worth much more.
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Offline Candy

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2014, 03:26:43 AM »
I like your ideas, but the current 10p is 24.5mm in diameter - way too large for its current value - compared to 18mm for the 5p. I would therefore reduce the 10p to around 21mm. Our coins are generally too large and heavy: pound coin too thick and heavy; 2 pound coin too wide. From this point of view, I prefer the euro system (shock, horror!). From the design point of view, smaller coins offer less scope, but utility and cost should take priority.

I agree,the pound coin is quite fat and a real heavyweight  ::) ,hopefully they will make it go on diet with the new design . I suspect that if they tinker with the size of the 2 pound coin the 5 pound coin will be round the corner.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: New pound coins in 2017
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2014, 11:59:43 AM »
The top coin on the rightmost pile looks doubtful also, with the edge decoration positioned ex-centrically.

Typically politician to tell you what you'll "save", not what they'll cut.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.